[Halifax] The Jade & Green Lantern (1595 Barrington) | Completed

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Oh for God's sake--as a youth science centre, educational facility, and tourist attraction, the Discovery Centre is a lot more valuable to the city than some condo tower. Development shouldn't come at the expense of something already valuable, just 'cause we're all hung-ho for a tower. C'mon.

They were not "given the boot" either, the developer and the centre worked together to ensure they weren't made homeless.They have, in fact, found another location, in the renovated NS Power builidng. I don't know when they're moving in, though.

The new location won't be ready until 2015. They knew that their lease was up on Barrington. They *chose* the new NSP site knowing it would put them in the position of potentially having NO site for two years.

That is in incompetence. It also put Ghosn in an awkward position, having to delay plans because they don't have their act together. Don't get annoyed at me for their lack of foresight in their lease agreements and future site plans. They put the science, knowledge, and tourism at risk.

And by the way, I'm not "gung ho" for a tower. I'm "gung ho" about rescuing Barrington Street from the blasted ruin that it's essentially become. Delays in that recovery, due to incompetent planning by Discovery Centre, I'm going to call out.

[ILoveHalifax]

Every delay in downtown results in delays in other aspects of downtown. Retail will be delayed waiting for growth in residential. It's a snowball effect.
Downtown Halifax is more important than the discovery center.

[xanaxanax]

theres only about 5 months of work that needs to be done for the new Discovery Centre that needs to be signed off for that they have been delaying for the past 2 years. The building is completely finished and its just Interior Design and placement of attractions that needs to be put in but they keep putting it off to wait till the financing is completed, for god sake they have 25 years of free rent as a deal in the new location to make up for costs , They've been ready to move in since 2013 but they been dragging there feet on it. I like the Discovery Centre but the people handling the marketing and decision making for the move are moronic dipshits . They have 15.5 million or more of their 18.5 million goal should start moving in right now.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

And by the way, I'm not "gung ho" for a tower. I'm "gung ho" about rescuing Barrington Street from the blasted ruin that it's essentially become. Delays in that recovery, due to incompetent planning by Discovery Centre, I'm going to call out.

Oh, sigh. No it hasn't. I've been walking that street every day for a month and most nights. "Blasted ruin" is really not what's coming to mind. I don't even know where this "Barrington = war-torn Beirut" (as some clown in The Coast inferred this week) comes from. At worst, it's sleepy and a bit down-at-heels, when it should be the city's main downtown destination. It's certainly not a ruin, however. And the Centre has been one of the street's success stories for years.

Sorry, I don't mean to get pissy, it's just that jumping all over a non-profit educational centre that's been a great asset for the city seems silly. I don't know enough about what's gone on internally to know if the centre's management is to blame for the delay or not, but I'm not going to leap to assumptions.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Oh, sigh. No it hasn't. I've been walking that street every day for a month and most nights. "Blasted ruin" is really not what's coming to mind. I don't even know where this "Barrington = war-torn Beirut" (as some clown in The Coast inferred this week) comes from. At worst, it's sleepy and a bit down-at-heels, when it should be the city's main downtown destination. It's certainly not a ruin, however. And the Centre has been one of the street's success stories for years.

Sorry, I don't mean to get pissy, it's just that jumping all over a non-profit educational centre that's been a great asset for the city seems silly. I don't know enough about what's gone on internally to know if the centre's management is to blame for the delay or not, but I'm not going to leap to assumptions.

I think we must have different conceptions of a successful street. The end of the main portion of Barrington, near Spring Garden, is OK, though not wholly successful, given some of the turnover in some of the shops/restaurants, with the Pogue still boarded up. But I would still say, far from a success.

Going the other way, it's pretty bad, a combination of literally or quasi blasted ruin (NFB building, CD Plus lot, Tramway) and empty/dead storefronts (Roy / Sam the Record Man / old John W. Doull books Building / Maritime Summit Shop / Old Granite Brewery shop / both old Just Us Cafe locations). And then there is just plain weird stuff, that you would never see on any successful street in the core of a successful city downtown--- like that huge ugly parking lot beside the Dennis Building, at George and Barrington, taking up an entire block that should be developed. Further up, the CIBC building is horrible at ground level-- a series of unappealing dark windows-- and ScotiaSquare, with its long, blank, concrete wall, with a couple big vents, is even worst than that.

Yes, some of those spaces are being re-developed, and I'm thrilled and "gung ho" about a turnaround.

But come on. If this is "A little sleepy and down at the heels", I'd hate to see things when it really gets bad.

[Keith P.]

I have never been in the Discovery Center and it may be the second coming of youth education for all I know - but I have serious questions about their business model and the degree to which they are on the public dole. Recently they had several flashy announcements of millions in funding from all 3 levels of govt - this in a time when we are saying out of the other side of our mouths that we are broke. Of course HRM is always flush with cash to flush down the toilets, but this does not take away from the fundamental question: what is the oversight of this place, and what is the collective benefit of this place for the taxpayer?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Going the other way, it's pretty bad, a combination of literally or quasi blasted ruin (NFB building, CD Plus lot, Tramway) and empty/dead storefronts (Roy / Sam the Record Man / old John W. Doull books Building / Maritime Summit Shop / Old Granite Brewery shop / both old Just Us Cafe locations). And then there is just plain weird stuff, that you would never see on any successful street in the core of a successful city downtown--- like that huge ugly parking lot beside the Dennis Building, at George and Barrington, taking up an entire block that should be developed. Further up, the CIBC building is horrible at ground level-- a series of unappealing dark windows-- and ScotiaSquare, with its long, blank, concrete wall, with a couple big vents, is even worst than that.

Yes, some of those spaces are being re-developed, and I'm thrilled and "gung ho" about a turnaround.

But come on. If this is "A little sleepy and down at the heels", I'd hate to see things when it really gets bad.

Yeah, half of those, like you say, are just under redevelopment, so that's positive. Scotia Square and the CIBC building are awful, but crappy modernist facades blighting streets aren't unique to Barrington.

As far as the parking lot behind Dennis, it's only half a block, and I dunno--I remember the Bay-Adelaide stump, an empty site that sat for years in the middle of Toronto's financial district after the money dried up for a project, even as the city exploded around it. It's bad, but it's not something that you'd never see elsewhere.

And yeah, Tramway is ugly since they removed its face, but there's a great, successful business down there that brings people to the area at night. (Obladee bar.)

NFB is rough-looking, definitely, but redevelopment is supposedly finally around the corner (any updates on this? 'Cause even thought it's small-scale, it's the one I'm most looking forward to on the street. Will be a huge facelift.

Definitely it needs work, but damn, I lived in Toronto, just off Yonge around Gerrard, for two years. There were a lot more people around of course, but it also felt a LOT more blighted. Empty storefronts, cheap businesses, and a lot of buildings in worse shape than anything on Barrington. It's being revitalized too now, but it still looks worse.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yeah, half of those, like you say, are just under redevelopment, so that's positive. Scotia Square and the CIBC building are awful, but crappy modernist facades blighting streets aren't unique to Barrington.

As far as the parking lot behind Dennis, it's only half a block, and I dunno--I remember the Bay-Adelaide stump, an empty site that sat for years in the middle of Toronto's financial district after the money dried up for a project, even as the city exploded around it. It's bad, but it's not something that you'd never see elsewhere.

And yeah, Tramway is ugly since they removed its face, but there's a great, successful business down there that brings people to the area at night. (Obladee bar.)

NFB is rough-looking, definitely, but redevelopment is supposedly finally around the corner (any updates on this? 'Cause even thought it's small-scale, it's the one I'm most looking forward to on the street. Will be a huge facelift.

Definitely it needs work, but damn, I lived in Toronto, just off Yonge around Gerrard, for two years. There were a lot more people around of course, but it also felt a LOT more blighted. Empty storefronts, cheap businesses, and a lot of buildings in worse shape than anything on Barrington. It's being revitalized too now, but it still looks worse.

All fair points, and I know the Yonge/Gerrard area. There are plenty of "down at the heels" streets in Toronto for sure.

I guess for me, Barrington is a main and essential piece for the city. It should be more like Bloor Street than Yonge at Gerrard. The intersection at Barrington and Spring Garden should be more like Yonge and Bloor (minus the gaudy big screen ads), than Front and Sherbourne.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

the blasted ruin that it's essentially become.

A little bit of an exaggeration, especially in light of all the current and near-future projects that are developing now.

And then there's Stillwell! http://www.barstillwell.com/

Seriously, a delay in this one project is not going to make or break Barrington street. Patience, grasshopper!

[someone123]

I haven't been in town for a while but I think there's a big difference between a truly struggling street and one that's experiencing a lot of redevelopment and business turnover. Construction itself can be disruptive, but in the long run it pays off if the new buildings are good. I think Espace, the new Roy, the CD Plus replacement, NFB, and TD all look great.

The lot by the Dennis Building is owned by the province and not particularly subject to market forces.

It's also worth pointing out that the Discovery Center itself is not an empty lot. I don't think this particular delay will be very harmful to the street. I'm much more eager to see something like the NFB proposal move forward.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

The lot by the Dennis Building is owned by the province and not particularly subject to market forces.

Dennis Building should have been subject to political / public pressure forces long ago.

Here is a great presentation from 2007, by Andy Fillmore and the Consulting team that put together the CBCL group on Grand Parade/Public Lands.

http://www.halifax.ca/CapitalDistric...esentation.pdf

If the City/Province followed ALL recommendations in that plan, it would greatly improve Province House / Grand Parade / related grounds. It also included an exploration of "options" for the "Future of the Dennis Building" and offered great proposal on what to do with the Dennis.

That was 2007. It's scandalous that lot has remained there for so long, and still, here we are in 2014, almost a decade on, and nothing has changed.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I haven't been in town for a while but I think there's a big difference between a truly struggling street and one that's experiencing a lot of redevelopment and business turnover. Construction itself can be disruptive, but in the long run it pays off if the new buildings are good. I think Espace, the new Roy, the CD Plus replacement, NFB, and TD all look great.

I don't have a lot of history with the street, having just moved full-time to the city pretty recently, but I can't imagine the trajectory being anything but upwards. Especially in terms of eating/drinking establishments, there's Stillwell, that speakeasy thing under the Middle Spoon, Two Doors Down, and Tempo (which also marginally improves the aesthetics of the corner at Duke Street). Those are all new, and they all seem to be doing really well.

The places that have closed are what you'd expect to lose on a street undergoing a step-up in prestige--a somewhat out-of-fashion 90ish cafe (Just Us) and (sadly) a bookstore.

The NFB site is still awaiting the beginning of the rebuilding (soon, please, soon) and the Khyber's newly empty status isn't great, but it's growing pains at this point. Small-biz entrepreneurs and large-scale developers alike are all very present and active on the street right now.

NFB has to move forward, Roy has to be finished, and the province has to get its ass moving on the lot behind Dennis (where any development might incorporate the Dennis, and affect some restoration there as well).

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The places that have closed are what you'd expect to lose on a street undergoing a step-up in prestige--a somewhat out-of-fashion 90ish cafe (Just Us) and (sadly) a bookstore.

The NFB site is still awaiting the beginning of the rebuilding (soon, please, soon) and the Khyber's newly empty status isn't great, but it's growing pains at this point. Small-biz entrepreneurs and large-scale developers alike are all very present and active on the street right now.

NFB has to move forward, Roy has to be finished, and the province has to get its ass moving on the lot behind Dennis (where any development might incorporate the Dennis, and affect some restoration there as well).

I used to love John Doull Books to death as an undergrad student.

That said, I'd be fine with it going, if, yes, something similar a little nicer replaced. I would LOVE a Chapters on Barrington, or anywhere downtown for that matter. It's one of the things that I really, truly, miss having in downtown Halifax-- a large, nice, bookstore, to go, read, have a coffee, relax, and yeah, buy some books-- that was, or something like it, a fixture in other cities I've lived and worked.

I mean, even London, Ontario, has a Chapters located downtown. And it's the serial killer capital of the world!

http://metronews.ca/news/london/9585...ike-arntfield/

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I used to love John Doull Books to death as an undergrad student.

That said, I'd be fine with it going, if, yes, something similar a little nicer replaced. I would LOVE a Chapters on Barrington, or anywhere downtown for that matter. It's one of the things that I really, truly, miss having in downtown Halifax-- a large, nice, bookstore, to go, read, have a coffee, relax, and yeah, buy some books-- that was, or something like it, a fixture in other cities I've lived and worked.

I mean, even London, Ontario, has a Chapters located downtown. And it's the serial killer capital of the world!

http://metronews.ca/news/london/9585...ike-arntfield/

Hey, you will have all that and more with the new library, but you won't have to buy the books!

Actually I agree with your sentiment, but with the decline of actual print books one must wonder how long these big Chapters stores will remain viable. Probably why they have started to sell non-book items in the past couple of years. This is why we will likely not see one open downtown.

That said, there is still a Coles (owned by Chapters/Indigo) and a Starbucks in Scotia Square, I believe, so you can have a similar experience on a smaller scale...

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Hey, you will have all that and more with the new library, but you won't have to buy the books!

Actually I agree with your sentiment, but with the decline of actual print books one must wonder how long these big Chapters stores will remain viable. Probably why they have started to sell non-book items in the past couple of years. This is why we will likely not see one open downtown.

That said, there is still a Coles (owned by Chapters/Indigo) and a Starbucks in Scotia Square, I believe, so you can have a similar experience on a smaller scale...

The Chapters near my last apartment, at Bloor and Runnymede in Toronto, actually closed this month because the rent was too pricey. It was in a nice old converted moviehouse, and Heather Reisman broke the news to neighbourhood residents in a local town-hall forum. It was almost funny, a big chain megastore earning sympathy like a struggling independent, but that's the book-retailing reality these days. Even the country's big book chain retailer, in one of the country's most affluent neighbourhoods, can't keep itself in business. (The building will be turned into a Shoppers Drug Mart.)

Hope Bookmark persists on Spring Garden, at least. Without there'll only be the Coles in Scotia Square.

[alps]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Hope Bookmark persists on Spring Garden, at least. Without there'll only be the Coles in Scotia Square.

There's a great used bookstore in the lowest level of Maritime Centre (the Aliant building). Not John Doull's calibre but similar feel on a smaller scale. I like to promote this place to friends because nobody seems to know about it. I think it's called "Dustjacket Books".

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Hey, you will have all that and more with the new library, but you won't have to buy the books!

Actually I agree with your sentiment, but with the decline of actual print books one must wonder how long these big Chapters stores will remain viable. Probably why they have started to sell non-book items in the past couple of years. This is why we will likely not see one open downtown.

That said, there is still a Coles (owned by Chapters/Indigo) and a Starbucks in Scotia Square, I believe, so you can have a similar experience on a smaller scale...

I think Chapters/indigo have remained profitable, and will remain around for a while, for a few reasons. First, because they offer an experience, not just a product. They're a "lifestyle" store. People go and hang around. The Chapters around the city are always packed when I'm there. Second, they've been smart about diversifying income streams. That's why they sell more than books now in store, and have done a decent job of developing technology for e-books.

Coles is too small. Not the same experience. :/

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The Chapters near my last apartment, at Bloor and Runnymede in Toronto, actually closed this month because the rent was too pricey. It was in a nice old converted moviehouse, and Heather Reisman broke the news to neighbourhood residents in a local town-hall forum. It was almost funny, a big chain megastore earning sympathy like a struggling independent, but that's the book-retailing reality these days. Even the country's big book chain retailer, in one of the country's most affluent neighbourhoods, can't keep itself in business. (The building will be turned into a Shoppers Drug Mart.)

Hope Bookmark persists on Spring Garden, at least. Without there'll only be the Coles in Scotia Square.

Bookmark is up for sale, no? I liked Bookmark, but it was more Coles than Chapters. Seriously, we need a proper bookstore downtown.

It doesn't have to be streetfront on Spring Garden, even though I would prefer it. They could be off street to avoid higher rents, like the anchor Indigo in Toronto, which is in the ground floor / basement of the Maritime Life building at Bay/Bloor, but the entrance is off Bay street, a half block down from Bloor.

I think the old HMV would be absolutely *perfect* for a Chapters. And there will be less opposition now, as Bookmark is no longer a going concern. I hope Chapters maybe buys Bookmark, and moves it into a larger location downtown.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Bookmark is up for sale, no? I liked Bookmark, but it was more Coles than Chapters. Seriously, we need a proper bookstore downtown.

Yeah, but I think they're hopeful they'll find a buyer. I like it because it's got a good local section and is more lit-focused than a Coles or something, though the scale is similar. A better browsing store, for sure.

A big bookstore downtown would be great--I don't know if it's going to happen though. Even Calgary doesn't have one (they had a great store called McNally Robinson years ago, but it closed. Now all that's left is a little Indigo "spirit" store that mainly exists to unload discount calendars and discounted hardcovers.)

I fear that the cities that already have proper bookstores downtown are going to lose them, and the cities that don't just...won't.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I don't have a lot of history with the street, having just moved full-time to the city pretty recently, but I can't imagine the trajectory being anything but upwards.

I think a lot of the negativity has built up over the years due to disappointing progress on the street. We're not really in a slow period right now, but buildings under construction don't really help retail areas so Barrington is still at a sort of low point. It will only start to get noticeably busier when there are actually more people living in the area and more businesses move in. I can't imagine it staying like it is now when all of the new construction (including big residential buildings like the Bank of Canada and Roy) is finished.

If we look back to 2000 and earlier then I think the whole downtown area has improved a lot. The businesses along Barrington and Spring Garden are more upscale than they used to be, and there used to be a lot more eyesore properties in poor condition. 2005-2011 or so unfortunately was a kind of limbo period when demand had gone up post-1990's but where bureaucratic delays held the street back (HbD, the heritage district, and Nova Centre were all hugely delayed, and streetscaping on Barrington still hasn't happened).