Atlanta Project Thread IV

[smArTaLlone]

Perennial Properties broke ground this week on the Westside's latest apartment offering, a mixed-use development that hopes to add residents and restaurants to the burgeoning neighborhood by early next year. Jay McGinnity, Perennial's development manager, told Curbed the project will bring 230 apartments and roughly 9,000 square feet of retail space to a submarket that's flush with construction activity at the moment. The mid-rise building will face Howell Mill Road and Brady Avenue on a lot next door to Ford Fry's The Optimist restaurant. For now, the project is unnamed. "We've got a couple of finalists," McGinnity said, "but nothing official yet."

http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2014/01/15/first-look-westsides-latest-mixeduse-offering.php

[smArTaLlone]

Renderings posted by foxmccleod

This MUST get built!

Originally Posted by foxmccleod

[Jarod Apperson]

I thought the AMLI renderings were...meh. It was a step above Novare. Probably on par with 77 12th. Its mostly a box, but doesn't look as cheap as the two Skyhouse projects. I definitely wouldn't characterize it as creative. It will be 27 stories from the West Peachtree side.

Part of my perspective may be skewed because it came after 811 which was such a more interesting design. Also, I had higher hopes since I like some of CooperCary's other work. 905 Juniper is great in my opinion.

[bryantm3]

i personally don't get what all the hate against novare is for. sure, their designs aren't absolutely breathtaking like the new 811 peachtree design is, but to me they're about on-par with most of the other glass-and-steel designs of the past decade or so, such as pickard-chilton's buildings. hey, at least we're past that post-modern crap we were getting in the 80s and 90s.

[clexmond]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i personally don't get what all the hate against novare is for. sure, their designs aren't absolutely breathtaking like the new 811 peachtree design is, but to me they're about on-par with most of the other glass-and-steel designs of the past decade or so, such as pickard-chilton's buildings. hey, at least we're past that post-modern crap we were getting in the 80s and 90s.

I think the main complaint with Novare (except for maybe Metropolis) is how poor the treatment of the parking decks is. I don't have a problem with the buildings themselves, but the decks, especially on Viewpoint, are generally hideous.

[Tuckerman]

What makes a skyline interesting is the combination of a lot of hum-drum buildings in the mix of an occasional gem. I can't think of any exception across the globe to this. The Novare buildings are perfectly ok in this context and we should be pleased with the fact that they are actively building highrises. Also, tastes in architecture change, today's gem may be tomorrow's eyesore. "Isms in architecture come and go.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by clexmond

I think the main complaint with Novare (except for maybe Metropolis) is how poor the treatment of the parking decks is. I don't have a problem with the buildings themselves, but the decks, especially on Viewpoint, are generally hideous.

fair enough, but on the same token, they're not as integrated with the buildings as some of the nicer ones are, so they're an easier target for demolition potentially.

i have a question for y'all: 20-30 years down the road when midtown is a lot more urban than it is now, a lot of these places (viewpoint, spire, 12th and midtown, etc.) are not even going to be owned by the same entities anymore; they'll have moved on to newer developments. do you guys think that apartments and condos in these sorts of developments are going to be just as expensive then as they are now? meaning do you expect there to be more room for working class residents in midtown 20-30 years from now?

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

.

i have a question for y'all: 20-30 years down the road when midtown is a lot more urban than it is now, a lot of these places (viewpoint, spire, 12th and midtown, etc.) are not even going to be owned by the same entities anymore; they'll have moved on to newer developments. do you guys think that apartments and condos in these sorts of developments are going to be just as expensive then as they are now? meaning do you expect there to be more room for working class residents in midtown 20-30 years from now?

A great question. I think we can only judge this from other cities that have an experience with such housing overtime. It always struck me that the housing market, whether houses or apartments, largely consists of a mixture between movers and stayers. The subject area has been treated quite a lot in the sociological literature on diffusion and mathematically by people like James Coleman. Essentially, in any neighborhood or building there are those who buy or rent and never move and those who move often. It is quite complicated by the demographics of the region and the dynamism of the job market. My answer to your question would be: if the area stays fairly stable with the addition of the occasional new building, I would suspect that there would be an entrenched old guard that will tend to keep the prices stable and an active mover group tending to raise the prices. So I would predict little room for working class residents in midtown 20-30 years from now. My belief is that they will be in the outer suburbs.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

So I would predict little room for working class residents in midtown 20-30 years from now. My belief is that they will be in the outer suburbs.

I guess one would need to define "working class". What is our definition?

Is there "working class" residents located in Midtown now?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i have a question for y'all: 20-30 years down the road when midtown is a lot more urban than it is now, a lot of these places (viewpoint, spire, 12th and midtown, etc.) are not even going to be owned by the same entities anymore; they'll have moved on to newer developments. do you guys think that apartments and condos in these sorts of developments are going to be just as expensive then as they are now? meaning do you expect there to be more room for working class residents in midtown 20-30 years from now?

That's a great question, Bryant. 30 years from now the Gen X'ers will be elderly and millennials will be approaching retirement. Will they have moved to the burbs or will they still be living intown? Will the generations that come after them still want to live in midtown highrises? Will today's buildings still be in good shape?

[arjay57]

Apparently Tishman has begun marketing this proposed office tower.

Proposed Buckhead Tower To Have Magic Glass Walls!

Three Alliance Center

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

I guess one would need to define "working class". What is our definition?

Is there "working class" residents located in Midtown now?

For me the term "working class" is kind of generic - it is not a technical term. In the soc literature it generally is associated with blue-collar jobs, people who work on an hourly pay schedule (not salaried annually); more than likely to be less educated and with relatively low-income; however this is not the same as being in poverty. Of course the variance within such a broad term is great.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

For me the term "working class" is kind of generic - it is not a technical term. In the soc literature it generally is associated with blue-collar jobs, people who work on an hourly pay schedule (not salaried annually); more than likely to be less educated and with relatively low-income; however this is not the same as being in poverty. Of course the variance within such a broad term is great.

Okay, then to answer the original question, I think Midtown's demographic will be the same as it is now.

[bryantm3]

there's room in midtown for those on a lower income level right now. it's possible to get apartments in older buildings and whatnot for $700-$1000 a month, while the more ritzy folks live in the newer high rises.

i'm just concerned because i think everyone should have access to a place like midtown. i would hate for it to become a playground for the elite.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i personally don't get what all the hate against novare is for. sure, their designs aren't absolutely breathtaking like the new 811 peachtree design is, but to me they're about on-par with most of the other glass-and-steel designs of the past decade or so, such as pickard-chilton's buildings. hey, at least we're past that post-modern crap we were getting in the 80s and 90s.

I don't think its hate but the perception that Novare projects represent the absolute bare minimum allowable by zoning. And all that gray concrete is just not attractive.

I agree. I don't mind the buildings themselves but I do wish they would put a little more thought into the decks and the street levels of their buildings especially since they are getting tax abatement help on these buildings.

[Pessimistic Observer]

surprised no one posted this here saw it in the Atlanta construction thread a week or so ago

http://www.bisnow.com/commercial-real-estate/atlanta/587-great-scott-a-tod/

could mixed use be this decades strip mall ;}

[shivtim]

Five Points building to be renovated.
http://atlurbanist.tumblr.com/post/74006...pia-building-to-be-restored-with-promise

[echinatl]

http://www.cushwakeatlanta.com/the-time-for-downtown-is-now/

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

there's room in midtown for those on a lower income level right now. it's possible to get apartments in older buildings and whatnot for $700-$1000 a month, while the more ritzy folks live in the newer high rises.

i'm just concerned because i think everyone should have access to a place like midtown. i would hate for it to become a playground for the elite.

I'm thinking that lower income folks cannot afford $1000/month. That's why they live in the suburbs where apartments are much cheaper for a much nicer place. At a middle income level it was very hard for me to find an apartment that was good enough for me that I could afford.

People at lower and middle income levels usually end up with a roommate or two in order to afford areas like Midtown, but families don't usually have that luxury.

[scania]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I'm thinking that lower income folks cannot afford $1000/month. That's why they live in the suburbs where apartments are much cheaper for a much nicer place. At a middle income level it was very hard for me to find an apartment that was good enough for me that I could afford.

People at lower and middle income levels usually end up with a roommate or two in order to afford areas like Midtown, but families don't usually have that luxury.

As the previous person said...there are plenty of places to live in Midtown that cost under $800. No its not the newest high-rises, but there are a plethora of options that are not expensive.