General Retail News

[kevinbottawa]

La Maison Simons Confirms Canada-Wide Store Search

Retail Insider

Peter Simons confirms he is actively seeking space for La Maison Simons stores in Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa-Gatineau.

"These markets are in our plans. We are working hard on it to open more stores in the rest of the country, "said Peter Simons to Lapresse.

According to Mr. Simons, sales at the new Edmonton Simons store are stellar and "beyond our expectations. Our business is profitable, "he said.

Simons sunk about $35million into the 118,000 square foot Edmonton store. We previously reported on its opening and its beautiful interior design.

Peter Simons, again, expressed his disappointment at the falling-through of negotiations to open a Simons store at Ottawa's Rideau Shopping Centre. Nordstrom's securing space at Rideau hampered Simons' ongoing negotiations. Negotiations for a store at Ottawa's St. Laurent Shopping Centre also fell through. As we previously reported, Simons may therefore open its first Ottawa location in Gatineau.

In Fall 2013, La Maison Simons will open its eighth store in suburban Montreal at the Galeries d'Anjou. Simons will have sunk about $25million into the two-level, 100,000 square foot store when completed.

Retail Insider was also informed by a commercial real estate broker that Simons wants stores in Calgary and Winnipeg.

http://www.retail-insider.com/#!/2013/02/la-maison-simons-confirms-canada-wide.html

[toaster]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

http://www.retail-insider.com/#!/2013/02/la-maison-simons-confirms-canada-wide.html

The "Big 3" are all going through expansions/will be expanding soon. If they wanted to get into one, they could have. It must have been a monetary thing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

The "Big 3" are all going through expansions/will be expanding soon. If they wanted to get into one, they could have. It must have been a monetary thing.

Yes and no. Some of the malls apparently have clauses in their leases with big players that allow these guys to veto or simply ban the implantation of competing chains. For example, Sears and The Bay at St. Laurent have exclusivity as the only large department stores in the mall.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes and no. Some of the malls apparently have clauses in their leases with big players that allow these guys to veto or simply ban the implantation of competing chains. For example, Sears and The Bay at St. Laurent have exclusivity as the only large department stores in the mall.

I was wondering why Simon's wouldn't be going to St Laurent, so that explains it. Seems short sighted as Simons would draw even more people to the mall, which would help the other department stores, I should have thought. Too bad.

[MountainView]

Why wouldn't Simons be interested in going to Bayshore? If they're big in being close to a French area of town I think that's silly. They should be in Bayshore when the expansion is done! It's right off 417 for easy access too!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Why wouldn't Simons be interested in going to Bayshore? If they're big in being close to a French area of town I think that's silly. They should be in Bayshore when the expansion is done! It's right off 417 for easy access too!

I don't see what's silly about capitalizing on a demographic that knows your brand and has been demanding your presence for quite some time, as opposed to a demographic that has barely even heard of you.

In any event, Simons wasn't really hell-bent on going for the francophone market only (or even primarily), as their first choice for Ottawa-Gatineau was St. Laurent but it appears this did not work out.

[MichelKazan]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Why wouldn't Simons be interested in going to Bayshore? If they're big in being close to a French area of town I think that's silly. They should be in Bayshore when the expansion is done! It's right off 417 for easy access too!

Because we all may remember a few years what happened a few years back when Les Ailes de la Mode (another Quebec fashion department store chain) expanded into Ontario and opened at Bayshore. I think that lasted less than 2 years.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

Because we all may remember a few years what happened a few years back when Les Ailes de la Mode (another Quebec fashion department store chain) expanded into Ontario and opened at Bayshore. I think that lasted less than 2 years.

Les Ailes was having financial difficulties at the time, and it was less known than Simons. Plus, Bayshore has grown and become the major "indoor" mall of not only Nepean now, but Kanata and Barrhaven too. A Bayshore location would be better than any Gatineau location, but it would also be much more expensive.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Why wouldn't Simons be interested in going to Bayshore? If they're big in being close to a French area of town I think that's silly. They should be in Bayshore when the expansion is done! It's right off 417 for easy access too!

I doubt that is it. After all, their first expansion was to Edmonton, not exactly a hotbed of francophone culture.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

Because we all may remember a few years what happened a few years back when Les Ailes de la Mode (another Quebec fashion department store chain) expanded into Ontario and opened at Bayshore. I think that lasted less than 2 years.

The chain as a whole was having some difficulty and the chain closed down many stores and scaled back operations. At least part of the financial difficulties were related to the losses from the failed experiment at Bayshore.

But Bayshore did not fail because the chain was having problems. It failed primarily because west end Ottawa shoppers never warmed to the chain (for whatever reason (improper positioning in the market, misadapted selection, not attuned to local tastes, "too French", too Québécois, who knows really).

Pus shoppers from the other side of the river who already knew the brand and were expected to be "gravy" for the Bayshore store and even prop it up for a time while it made a name for itself with Ottawans, never really came in sufficient numbers or regularly.

Shopping for clothes (especially for women) is often an impulse thing. Is Marie-Josée from Hull or Gatineau really gonna pop quickly into Bayshore that often to see if there are any new arrivals?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

I doubt that is it. After all, their first expansion was to Edmonton, not exactly a hotbed of francophone culture.

It would be interesting to see how the Edmonton store is doing. I know that the president of Simons was quoted as saying he was surprised at how many people from Quebec working in Edmonton, Fort Mac and Alberta in general were dropping into the store.

That said, you are right that Simons at WEM is not really there because there is a semblance of a local francophone market to tap into.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

Les Ailes was having financial difficulties at the time, and it was less known than Simons. Plus, Bayshore has grown and become the major "indoor" mall of not only Nepean now, but Kanata and Barrhaven too. A Bayshore location would be better than any Gatineau location, but it would also be much more expensive.

I am not sure why you can say this with so much assurance. I'd say that a Bayshore location would offer more potential success, but this success is not assured. A Gatineau location would offer pretty much assured success.

Apparently there are several thousand Simons credit card holders in Gatineau already, even though their closest existing store is 200 km away.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not sure why you can say this with so much assurance. I'd say that a Bayshore location would offer more potential success, but this success is not assured. A Gatineau location would offer pretty much assured success.

Apparently there are several thousand Simons credit card holders in Gatineau already, even though their closest existing store is 200 km away.

Wow. Critique me for saying something with such "assurance", to go around and use "apparently" as fact in the same breathe! That's a new one. I can say also say "Apparently hundreds of thousands of Ottawans in the West End have Simons credit cards". If you aren't going to post a link with actual numbers, why post it at all? Especially after criticizing me for saying something about location.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

Wow. Critique me for saying something with such "assurance", .

Well this what you said. Sounds like assurance to me:

A Bayshore location would be better than any Gatineau location

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

to go around and use "apparently" as fact in the same breathe! That's a new one. I can say also say "Apparently hundreds of thousands of Ottawans in the West End have Simons credit cards". If you aren't going to post a link with actual numbers, why post it at all? Especially after criticizing me for saying something about location.

It's not as if I proclaimed that the Earth was flat.

Simons actually surveyed its card holders in the Outaouais a few years ago about a potential store location. Several of my friends we surveyed and the company when it launched the survey indicated it had a base of thousands to work with in Gatineau.

Anyway, I don't know what is so hard to believe about this: Gatineau is close to 90% francophone and has thousands of transplants from Montreal and Quebec City. Until last fall Simons only had stores in Quebec. It stands to reason that there would be way more card holders and people who know the chain in Gatineau than in Nepean, Bayshore and Kanata.

Would we really need a scientific study to prove that the Maple Leafs are more popular in Toronto than in Montreal?

[toaster]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not as if I proclaimed that the Earth was flat.

Simons actually surveyed its card holders in the Outaouais a few years ago about a potential store location. Several of my friends we surveyed and the company when it launched the survey indicated it had a base of thousands to work with in Gatineau.

Anyway, I don't know what is so hard to believe about this: Gatineau is close to 90% francophone and has thousands of transplants from Montreal and Quebec City. Until last fall Simons only had stores in Quebec. It stands to reason that there would be way more card holders and people who know the chain in Gatineau than in Nepean, Bayshore and Kanata.

Would we really need a scientific study to prove that the Maple Leafs are more popular in Toronto than in Montreal?

No. But just as you were basing your view on "what you've heard" or what seems logical, so was I. It was shocking to me that you'd criticize me for doing that, and in the same breath go and do that yourself.

Regardless, Bayshore sees 20,000 people per day, with sales of 600$/sq ft.(See: http://www.obj.ca/Local/Retail/2012-07-11/article-3027086/Shoring-up-Bayshores-status/1) I cannot find numbers for Promenades, but both numbers are likely to be below those of Bayshore, and for that reason, Bayshore is a better location than the Gatineau location, in terms of number of consumers and sales. Plus, if your logic is correct and that many people in Gatineau have these Simons credit cards already, wouldn't they be more likely to go to Bayshore than all the way to Montreal, like they might be doing now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

No. But just as you were basing your view on "what you've heard" or what seems logical, so was I. It was shocking to me that you'd criticize me for doing that, and in the same breath go and do that yourself.

Regardless, Bayshore sees 20,000 people per day, with sales of 600$/sq ft.(See: http://www.obj.ca/Local/Retail/2012-07-11/article-3027086/Shoring-up-Bayshores-status/1) I cannot find numbers for Promenades, but both numbers are likely to be below those of Bayshore, .

Les Promenades has something like 20,000 visitors per day as well, but I suspect their sales per sq. ft. are somewhat lower than Bayshore.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

Plus, if your logic is correct and that many people in Gatineau have these Simons credit cards already, wouldn't they be more likely to go to Bayshore than all the way to Montreal, like they might be doing now.

Most of them probably don't go to Montreal regularly to shop at Simons. Maybe a few times a year if that. They have cards likely because they held onto them when they moved here from Quebec City and Montreal.

People from Gatineau aren't anywhere close to being the bread and butter of the stores in the Montreal area, and they wouldn't be the bread and butter of a Bayshore Simons either.

A Simons at Bayshore would have to have its viability based on west end Ottawa shoppers, with people from the Quebec side considered ''gravy'' at best.

That's what happened to Les Ailes de la Mode at Bayshore: people in west end Ottawa were unresponsive and the anticiated gravy from the Outaouais did not work out either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

Bayshore is a better location than the Gatineau location, in terms of number of consumers and sales.
.

Bayshore offers a better potential location but the viability of Simons in the English Canadian market is unproven at this point. Whereas Simons has worked and done very well in several markets in Quebec with similar demographics to those of Gatineau. Not saying Bayshore would not be good - just that it's not a sure thing like Gatineau.

Higher population and higher incomes aren't the only things that make an enterprise viable in a given market. It's the same logic that supposes that Phoenix is a better place for an NHL team than Winnipeg or Quebec City.

[m3i6]

Apparently I won’t be shopping at Simons because I’ve been assured that they do not carry tweed jackets with suede elbow patches.