1477 West Broadway | 124 M | 39 fl | Completed

[LeftCoaster]

The Metro Vancouver numbers are munch closer to on the ground reality.

Structured parking (underground or even above grade) has become incredibly expensive.

Even at $300/stall it's a huge loss for the developer.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The Metro Vancouver numbers are munch closer to on the ground reality.

Structured parking (underground or even above grade) has become incredibly expensive.

Even at $300/stall it's a huge loss for the developer.

The last 10 years was a market where any rental was leased out in moments as long as it had 4 solid walls. In that market, amenities and parking weren't needed to entice tenants. In today's market, and really in any balanced market, buildings that don't have sufficient parking will have issues leasing up. Developers are going to need to look at this as not a nice to have, but a necessity if they want close to 100% occupancy.

[Migrant_Coconut]

As long as gas is over two bucks a litre, non-essential car usage (possibly car ownership) is going to drop considerably. Being literally on top of a SkyTrain that opens next year absolutely makes parking a "nice to have."

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

As long as gas is over two bucks a litre, non-essential car usage (possibly car ownership) is going to drop considerably. Being literally on top of a SkyTrain that opens next year absolutely makes parking a "nice to have."

People said the same thing when Russia invaded Ukraine and oil prices spiked. Agreed that car ownership is not a necessity, it is a nice to have, but trying to fill thousands of units with a bunch of people that want to keep their cars but can't park them anywhere means that a lot will look elsewhere.

[jollyburger]

It's only like 10% higher over 2025 average gas prices if they didn't get rid of the carbon tax. You need to be at $4.00/L to see any meaningful reduction in car usage and if that happens you have more things to worry about than filling gas (if you can even buy any).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by PBlonde

People said the same thing when Russia invaded Ukraine and oil prices spiked. Agreed that car ownership is not a necessity, it is a nice to have, but trying to fill thousands of units with a bunch of people that want to keep their cars but can't park them anywhere means that a lot will look elsewhere.

One of the upsides of the free market is that if it's truly unsustainable, the complaining tenants will move out, the units will sit empty and future developments will be indirectly forced to have more parking in order to turn a profit.

That does not seem to be the case so far.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One of the upsides of the free market is that if it's truly unsustainable, the complaining tenants will move out, the units will sit empty and future developments will be indirectly forced to have more parking in order to turn a profit.

That does not seem to be the case so far.

Cool, you can add it to the 23 units still unrented in the building.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Cool, you can add it to the 23 units still unrented in the building.

23 out of 226 units. "89% occupancy before the building's even finished" is an argument against the need for more parking to attract tenants.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

23 out of 226 units. "89% occupancy before the building's even finished" is an argument against the need for more parking to attract tenants.

The residential component of the building has been finished for a while.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The residential component of the building has been finished for a while.

And has evidently had no problem getting people to pay for fewer, more expensive parking spaces.

[AlessioSBT]

I know i'm probably alone in this but i personally think cars are just a bad purchase.
It's not even a matter of "i need it or not". I think that everything has a price limit where the value just isn't there anymore and it makes zero sense to buy it even if you need it. And cars are over that limit now.

If you buy a new car today and you factor all the expenses (and i mean all of them, from insurance to maintenance) you basically get the equivalent of a mortgage for a small condo. At least for me there's no way that makes any financial sense. You are literally better off including that money in your budget for mortgage/rent and just move closer to downtown. I think a lot of people simply still have to realize this.

Now i know that if you live in the middle of nowhere you have no choice. But if you live in Broadway i really don't see the point in having a car.
Again, i know most people don't think like this and cars are just hardwired in the way they see life.

But i can't be the only one and i think more people will realize this in the future.

Right now i would want a parking spot with a condo only for the resale value becasue i know people want it. But i personally don't find it necessary.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by AlessioSBT

I know i'm probably alone in this but i personally think cars are just a bad purchase.
It's not even a matter of "i need it or not". I think that everything has a price limit where the value just isn't there anymore and it makes zero sense to buy it even if you need it. And cars are over that limit now.

If you buy a new car today and you factor all the expenses (and i mean all of them, from insurance to maintenance) you basically get the equivalent of a mortgage for a small condo. At least for me there's no way that makes any financial sense. You are literally better off including that money in your budget for mortgage/rent and just move closer to downtown. I think a lot of people simply still have to realize this.

Now i know that if you live in the middle of nowhere you have no choice. But if you live in Broadway i really don't see the point in having a car.
Again, i know most people don't think like this and cars are just hardwired in the way they see life.

But i can't be the only one and i think more people will realize this in the future.

Right now i would want a parking spot with a condo only for the resale value becasue i know people want it. But i personally don't find it necessary.

That’s why I never buy a brand‑new car and probably never will. The used market is what I choose. I’ve bought all my cars used and paid for them outright. I pay about $150 for insurance, $50 for oil changes (I do them myself), bought a nice new set of tires last year for around $1,300, and gas is about $200 a month (I drive a hybrid and I drive a lot). It’s totally affordable, and I have all the freedom I need.
So it really comes down to your choices. I’m an example that you can be perfectly fine without a brand‑new car and still afford everything without any issues.
Surprise, surprise — I drive a Lexus CT200h. I bought it for $17K; it’s a 2013 model with 70,000 km.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by AlessioSBT

I know i'm probably alone in this but i personally think cars are just a bad purchase.
It's not even a matter of "i need it or not". I think that everything has a price limit where the value just isn't there anymore and it makes zero sense to buy it even if you need it. And cars are over that limit now.

If you buy a new car today and you factor all the expenses (and i mean all of them, from insurance to maintenance) you basically get the equivalent of a mortgage for a small condo. At least for me there's no way that makes any financial sense. You are literally better off including that money in your budget for mortgage/rent and just move closer to downtown. I think a lot of people simply still have to realize this.

Now i know that if you live in the middle of nowhere you have no choice. But if you live in Broadway i really don't see the point in having a car.
Again, i know most people don't think like this and cars are just hardwired in the way they see life.

But i can't be the only one and i think more people will realize this in the future.

Right now i would want a parking spot with a condo only for the resale value becasue i know people want it. But i personally don't find it necessary.

That's largely because that's a European and Asian mindset you have (of seeing cars as increasingly not as necessary if you don't need them).

The North American mindset (including Canadians) is still anchored in that 1950's car-centric perception of modern soceity - despite the vast improvements and expansion in mass public transit.

So much so that even when a person lives in a centralized zone with a major transit node and hub like a Commercial Broadway or a Metrotown....or even Downtown itself, we still feel we need a car.

I can understand it somewhat for people that have young families, for example, with kids that need to be shuttled everywhere every time, but even in those situations I've seen some families make it work without a car for the most part (the kids were older, though).

You're right in that most people here (in NA) are just hardwired and conditioned to price in the cost of owning a car (or more) as part of what you have 'need' to have in order to live a comfortable life, or have an acceptable standard of living.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And has evidently had no problem getting people to pay for fewer, more expensive parking spaces.

I can all but guarantee that 89% occupancy is probably a 10% miss on proforma occupancy (before considering PSF rents), which will likely mean a 10% miss on building valuation and therefore a significant decrease (if not a complete wipe out) of any development profit. If you want more density, you need developers to make enough money to offset their risk.

I agree that the market will eventually guide developers to the right amount of parking. It's my view that a lot of the broadway plan submissions that have no, or very limited, parking will have issues leasing up.

I commute to work most days but still have a car and you'll have to pry that from my cold dead hands. In my view the best part of living in Metro Van is the mountains and outdoors which are still too difficult to access efficiently without a vehicle.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by PBlonde

I commute to work most days but still have a car and you'll have to pry that from my cold dead hands. In my view the best part of living in Metro Van is the mountains and outdoors which are still too difficult to access efficiently without a vehicle.

You seem to be applying your personal bias to the entire Vancouver rental market. Vancouver isn't the same as other municpalities; ICBC numbers show that in the past 4 years (2021-25) there were 38,400 more passenger vehicles registered in Surrey, 14,800 more in Burnaby, 12,200 more in Richmond but 743 fewer in Vancouver.

For shorter trips, Evo Car share is now available in Vancouver, North Vancouver, New Westminster, and Burnaby, with over 2,500 vehicles in the fleet. There's even free parking at Grouse Mountain. For longer trips, Modo Car share now has over 1,000 vehicles, the majority in Vancouver. There are still car rentals as an alternative. Those alternatives (along with bike share and Lime scooters for short local trips) seem to be limiting the growth in cars.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You seem to be applying your personal bias to the entire Vancouver rental market. Vancouver isn't the same as other municpalities; ICBC numbers show that in the past 4 years (2021-25) there were 38,400 more passenger vehicles registered in Surrey, 14,800 more in Burnaby, 12,200 more in Richmond but 743 fewer in Vancouver.

For shorter trips, Evo Car share is now available in Vancouver, North Vancouver, New Westminster, and Burnaby, with over 2,500 vehicles in the fleet. There's even free parking at Grouse Mountain. For longer trips, Modo Car share now has over 1,000 vehicles, the majority in Vancouver. There are still car rentals as an alternative. Those alternatives (along with bike share and Lime scooters for short local trips) seem to be limiting the growth in cars.

I am absolutely applying some personal bias but there's a significant amount of people that I'm sure are in a similar position to me. The fact that there are only 743 fewer cars registered in Vancouver over that period suggests there's not a significant reduction in demand for cars. Looks like there are 283,807 personal vehicles in Vancouver alone as of 2025 per ICBC (not counting commercial) which is about 1 car for every 2.5 people. Still seems like a pretty significant amount of car ownership.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by PBlonde

I am absolutely applying some personal bias but there's a significant amount of people that I'm sure are in a similar position to me. The fact that there are only 743 fewer cars registered in Vancouver over that period suggests there's not a significant reduction in demand for cars. Looks like there are 283,807 personal vehicles in Vancouver alone as of 2025 per ICBC (not counting commercial) which is about 1 car for every 2.5 people. Still seems like a pretty significant amount of car ownership.

We're still adding more parking spaces to the city in new developments, albeit at a lower proportion of the total units than in the past. And we've increased the population, (by about 44,000 from 2021 to 2025, if Stats Can estimates are accurate). But we have no more private vehicles in the city. That means developers are spending tens of thousands of dollars for every new parking space, while overall there's no additional demand for those spaces. It's no surprise that they aren't building as many spaces, because there's less demand than there was in the past. Presumably there's also more empty spaces in the buildings that were built in the past.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

That's largely because that's a European and Asian mindset you have (of seeing cars as increasingly not as necessary if you don't need them).

The North American mindset (including Canadians) is still anchored in that 1950's car-centric perception of modern soceity - despite the vast improvements and expansion in mass public transit.

So much so that even when a person lives in a centralized zone with a major transit node and hub like a Commercial Broadway or a Metrotown....or even Downtown itself, we still feel we need a car.

I can understand it somewhat for people that have young families, for example, with kids that need to be shuttled everywhere every time, but even in those situations I've seen some families make it work without a car for the most part (the kids were older, though).

You're right in that most people here (in NA) are just hardwired and conditioned to price in the cost of owning a car (or more) as part of what you have 'need' to have in order to live a comfortable life, or have an acceptable standard of living.

I live in Japan, in a city of about 1 million. Every single family with kids I know has a car or two. Do they / we also use the trains / ride bikes / walk too? Of course, but with young kids there are many situations where having a car is necessary.

Now, I do agree that new cars (especially in North America) have become waaaaay over priced. This is because in North America there are no “base model” cars anymore. Everything is way over engineered and way over reliant on computer systems. (There is a great YouTube video from a European channel called “enshittification” that touches on this about new cars and other over engineered / linked products.)

Here in Japan you can still get relatively cheap new vehicles with few bells and whistles. Also used cars are very cheap.

I’m currently driving a used ten year old Honda Fit. No accidents on it’s record. It cost me the equivalent of $800 Canadian dollars to buy. Now, every two years I need to spend around $700 on a car check up and insurance is about $100 a month, but even then the cost of driving here is very reasonable for all the things I need to use my car for (dropping off and picking kids up off peak transit hours / on bad weather days, large grocery shopping days, accessing mountain parks and beaches, family trips to extremely rural hard road get to places, etc…) And obviously, having kids, the cars are preloaded with all the kid stuff we need when we go somewhere.

As for a Canada, people like my brother, who is an elevator mechanic, not having a vehicle would make his job impossible to do.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

We're still adding more parking spaces to the city in new developments, albeit at a lower proportion of the total units than in the past. And we've increased the population, (by about 44,000 from 2021 to 2025, if Stats Can estimates are accurate). But we have no more private vehicles in the city. That means developers are spending tens of thousands of dollars for every new parking space, while overall there's no additional demand for those spaces. It's no surprise that they aren't building as many spaces, because there's less demand than there was in the past. Presumably there's also more empty spaces in the buildings that were built in the past.

Yes, you should congratulate senior levels of government that the Vancouver populace has been so beggared that they can no longer afford what their parents had.

[PBlonde]

Originally Posted by Changing City

We're still adding more parking spaces to the city in new developments, albeit at a lower proportion of the total units than in the past. And we've increased the population, (by about 44,000 from 2021 to 2025, if Stats Can estimates are accurate). But we have no more private vehicles in the city. That means developers are spending tens of thousands of dollars for every new parking space, while overall there's no additional demand for those spaces. It's no surprise that they aren't building as many spaces, because there's less demand than there was in the past. Presumably there's also more empty spaces in the buildings that were built in the past.

Of course there will be a net increase in total parking spaces even if all developments from here on out had only limited additional parking. But there will be a net increase in population as well and unless that new population comes without cars, we need parking in these new developments. How much is the million dollar question. There will be difficulty in leasing up buildings where there is insufficient parking and that has a very real cost associated with it.