Winnipeg | Naawi-Oodena | Kapyong Barracks Redevelopment

[borkborkbork]

the article titled "A Vision for the Future of Winnipeg" and then the picture of a gas bar and midrise office building surrounded by parking... just... *chefs kiss*

this is the development we deserve

[EndIt]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

the article titled "A Vision for the Future of Winnipeg" and then the picture of a gas bar and midrise office building surrounded by parking... just... *chefs kiss*

this is the development we deserve

That's uncharitable of you. There's also two strip malls.

[peg]

ooof... this is sad...

So much potential for this site and development and yet we get suburban retail and a crap ton of parking...

[peg]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

the article titled "A Vision for the Future of Winnipeg" and then the picture of a gas bar and midrise office building surrounded by parking... just... *chefs kiss*

this is the development we deserve

this comment sent me

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by EndIt

That's uncharitable of you. There's also two strip malls.

Also 260 units they conveniently didn't show (they'll never get built). It's insane the city is allowing prime real estate to be wasted with a gas bar and a couple strip malls.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by Brick&BRT

I feel like we're headed in the wrong direction with this one. I knew the plan wasn't dense enough in th first place, but the buildings depicted in these renderings belong in Headingley.

You do realize that these buildings look the exact same in scale as those along Grant Ave across from Superstore? Or those at Kenaston Commons? Except much newer and nicer. Should they all belong in Headlingley as well?

If you're looking for downtown density in a suburban location you're probably not going to get it. To me it looks exactly like the kind of development that people living in this area would like.

[EndIt]

I'd guess that Canada Lands and Treaty 1 Nations are probably hurting financially and this might be legitimately the best they can do right now. I'm not an architect but that central parking lot screams "we wanted to put a tower here but we lost the budget for it". There's an insane amount of parking for what's there

Even then though, a pretty dumbass decision to prioritize office space and strip mall retail over housing in the current climate. I've heard from friends of friends that the project was a crappy work environment, so maybe its just not being run professionally.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by EndIt

I'd guess that Canada Lands and Treaty 1 Nations are probably hurting financially and this might be legitimately the best they can do right now. I'm not an architect but that central parking lot screams "we wanted to put a tower here but we lost the budget for it". There's an insane amount of parking for what's there

Even then though, a pretty dumbass decision to prioritize office space and strip mall retail over housing in the current climate. I've heard from friends of friends that the project was a crappy work environment, so maybe its just not being run professionally.

Canada Lands has nothing to do with block A, this is all Treaty One Development Corporation

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Also 260 units they conveniently didn't show (they'll never get built). It's insane the city is allowing prime real estate to be wasted with a gas bar and a couple strip malls.

What role do you think the City had in approving this development??

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Mr Tall Forehead

What role do you think the City had in approving this development??

Is the city not involved in permitting?

[EndIt]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Is the city not involved in permitting?

They're federal lands Baybeee. Not technically under the city's jurisdiction if I understand correctly.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by EndIt

They're federal lands Baybeee. Not technically under the city's jurisdiction if I understand correctly.

Well shit. If the feds still own the land, they should be practicing what they preach in terms of urban densification.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by peg

ooof... this is sad...

So much potential for this site and development and yet we get suburban retail and a crap ton of parking...

So basically an extension of Kenaston Commons then? What's the big deal? I didn't see any of this hand wringing over that crap hole wasteland.

[EndIt]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

So basically an extension of Kenaston Commons then? What's the big deal? I didn't see any of this hand wringing over that crap hole wasteland.

Because it could be better! Have hope!

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by EndIt

They're federal lands Baybeee. Not technically under the city's jurisdiction if I understand correctly.

I don't think this is correct. The Federal government either sold or transferred this land. My understanding of other urban reserves is that it is still subject to city bi-laws and approvals. I'm sure there are people on here who can validate either of our understandings of this.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by EndIt

They're federal lands Baybeee. Not technically under the city's jurisdiction if I understand correctly.

That is correct, the 68% of Naawi-Oodena owned by Treaty 1 First Nations is designated an urban reserve, they have the authority to approve their own development plans for their portion as urban reserves fall under First Nations' jurisdiction. They are not subject to the City of Winnipeg’s zoning and permitting processes for their land. Their plans, however, are designed to align with the city’s design principles to ensure compatibility with surrounding areas though the Secondary Plan. The Secondary Plan established a comprehensive planning and land use framework for the site and was adopted by council in January 2024, it will also serve as the Master Plan for the Canada Lands 32% portion of the site which is subject to city permitting and zoning jurisdiction.

The Gaawijijigemangit Agreement signed in 2022 between the City of Winnipeg and Treaty 1 First Nations outlines how municipal services (e.g., water, sewer, and emergency services) are to be delivered to Naawi-Oodena in a manner that is consistent with the rest of the city though servicing fees.

As a fundamental part of the Agreement, the City will receive payments for services from Treaty One Nation as lands are developed. Once developed, Treaty One Nation intends to utilize its
taxing authority to create a property and business tax regime that mirrors that existing beyond the boundaries of Naawi-Oodena, to present a seamless transition. Once collected, Treaty One Nation will forward 65% of those taxes collected to the City as payment for services rendered under the Agreement.

It should be noted that the Agreement only includes the Treaty One Nation and the City as parties; CLC will develop its portion of the lands subject to all existing laws and processes of the City of Winnipeg, similar to any other developer.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Well shit. If the feds still own the land, they should be practicing what they preach in terms of urban densification.

To save the trouble of a cone of disinformation continuing....

The lands are owned by the First Nation development corporation. They have been transferred to them by the Federal government due to outstanding treaty land claims. The Feds no longer have any stake in these lands and they are not officially under the cities jurisdiction.

They are now reserve lands which are exempt from municipal taxation. That doesn't mean they won't be paying "taxes" though as numerous service sharing agreements will be required between the City of Winnipeg and the First Nations development corporation for water, sewer, garbage, roads, etc.

They are required to attain all the same building and development permits from the City of Winnipeg that are required of any other developer undertaking projects of a similar nature. They don't have to, but are generally encouraged to, follow the existing Development Plans, Secondary Plans and Zoning By-Laws of the area which is why this development looks no different than Kenaston Commons just up the road.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

To save you two the trouble of creating your own cone of disinformation.

The lands are owned by the First Nation development corporation. They have been transferred to them by the Federal government due to outstanding treaty land claims. The Feds no longer have any stake in these lands.

They are now reserve lands which are exempt from municipal taxation. That doesn't mean they won't be paying "taxes" though as numerous service sharing agreements will be required between the City of Winnipeg and the First Nations development corporation for water, sewer, garbage, roads, etc.

They are required to attain all the same building and development permits from the City of Winnipeg that are required of any other developer undertaking projects of a similar nature. They are generally encouraged to follow the existing Development Plans and Zoning By-Laws of the area which is why this development looks no different than Kenaston Commons just up the road.

I get it. For a few of you First Nations led developments are still the "boogeyman". If you choose though to view it from the lense of every other "mixed use commercial development" in close proximity it is no different at all. Perhaps save the hand wringing and pearl clutching for real issues.

If you're going to insinuate racism where none exists, that's your prerogative, but it's a shitty move. I would be equally critical about a non-indigenous led development plopping this low-density crap down in a high traffic area while we're in a housing crisis with HAF money still on the table. This development should be aiming higher and doing better, it's rare a city like winnipeg gets dozens of acres all together in an inner suburb for redevelopment. Now if you go way back for full disclosure's sake, ive been saying this parcel should have been retained for a super-armoury for the reservists in Winnipeg as the others are crumbling, but we're long past that. Beyond that, the only crux of my criticism is poor urban design. This is a squandering of an opportunity that didn't exist when Kenaston Commons was built.

Edit: nice try on hiding your claims of racism.

[Wpg_Guy]

There is a subdivision and rezoning hearing coming up for s portion of the Canada Lands site

[EndIt]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

To save the trouble of a cone of disinformation continuing....

The lands are owned by the First Nation development corporation. They have been transferred to them by the Federal government due to outstanding treaty land claims. The Feds no longer have any stake in these lands and they are not officially under the cities jurisdiction.

They are now reserve lands which are exempt from municipal taxation. That doesn't mean they won't be paying "taxes" though as numerous service sharing agreements will be required between the City of Winnipeg and the First Nations development corporation for water, sewer, garbage, roads, etc.

They are required to attain all the same building and development permits from the City of Winnipeg that are required of any other developer undertaking projects of a similar nature. They don't have to, but are generally encouraged to, follow the existing Development Plans, Secondary Plans and Zoning By-Laws of the area which is why this development looks no different than Kenaston Commons just up the road.

Cool your jets pal, I have no qualms with the fact we have an urban reserve, reserves in general or Indigenous people. They're to free use the land in the ways they see fit, I just think the design and use of land here is lame.

Not to be a know-it-all, but Reserves are still legally Federal lands held by the king for use by First Nations. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=0723cad581bf44388258580fb81bd3ae
Doesn't mean that Carney gets to dictate what happens there, but the federal law can and does exert influence on reserve.