Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

John Bolton thinks differently from you guys: https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1861774191634043032

I think John Bolton knows Trump a bit more than you do...

And he's not isolated in thinking that this time Trump will really enforce all the things he says. Several US analysts with good credentials believe it.

But beyond that, I think the scariest thing is not whether Trump will actually enforce his threats, the scariest thing is you live in a country where, basically, all you can do is HOPE Trump will be lazy/vain and not enforce his threats. That's what I was alluding to the other day when I said I wouldn't be reassured if I lived in a country so close to such a (currently) unpredictable and formidable country as the US.

The price of almost all consumer goods with the exception of gasoline and beer is higher right now in the states compared to Canada. American prices were traditionally lower due to them being a much larger market with more competition. Trump imposing a 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico will drive prices up a lot for many basic goods for Americans. Doing so will cause civil unrest and extreme anger. If that's Trump's intention then the U.S. is really screwed but my thinking is that if the tariffs actually go ahead that they won't be applied to energy, minerals, building materials and automotive parts.

[Acajack]

Over the weekend I heard an interview on Radio-Canada with legendary French slam artist Grand Corps Malade.

He was promoting his biographical movie about Charles Aznavour which will be released here tomorrow.

It was also mentioned at the end of the interview that he recently moved to Montreal.

He brought his entire family to live here for a year or two or whatever, just for kicks.

He said "this place is really cool because in a way it's kind of like home but on the other hand you're also in America so you have this energy that gives one the impression that anything is possible".

Nice compliment!

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The price of almost all consumer goods with the exception of gasoline and beer is higher right now in the states compared to Canada. American prices were traditionally lower due to them being a much larger market with more competition. Trump imposing a 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico will drive prices up a lot for many basic goods for Americans. Doing so will cause civil unrest and extreme anger. If that's Trump's intention then the U.S. is really screwed but my thinking is that if the tariffs actually go ahead that they won't be applied to energy, minerals, building materials and automotive parts.

Groceries are still a lot cheaper. A gallon of milk is $1 CAD cheaper on Walmart USA than Canada. Poultry is about $3 per lbs cheaper still in the USA. This is all from domestic production so prices wont be affected.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by theman23

Groceries are still a lot cheaper. A gallon of milk is $1 CAD cheaper on Walmart USA than Canada. Poultry is about $3 per lbs cheaper still in the USA. This is all from domestic production so prices wont be affected.

You've chosen the two most extreme examples of things that are cheaper stateside. Supermarket wide it is a lot more mixed and depending on the location and basket I'd argue the US is now more expensive. Mexican produce being tariffed would certainly cause price hikes. The impact on dairy and meat is not clear. Losing export markets for a lot of the inputs farmers use could maybe lower their costs.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by lio45

Me, then?

Mais non, don't worry. It might be me instead.
I told him that the idea of the US literally invading Canada was completely silly, which is obvious.
Besides, Bris needs French fellows here and everywhere he is, so I may have missed him.
You guys are only Canadians after all.

That being said, if the US wants to crush any economy, especially the French, cause you know, the French will always be the nasty French anyway, all they have to do is to wait for the French to ruin their economy on their own.
It seems we are stupid enough to do it by ourselves. We don't need the US for doing anything either brilliant or totally dumb, eh.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

French Twitter in hilarious mode today:
https://x.com/GeWoessner/status/1861834437706571816

Et sinon à Montréal ça va-t-y bien dans les embouteillages avec votre mairesse ?

Traffic is on the highways, not that much on the city streets.

[mousquet]

^ I guess many algorithms of that kind are designed to tell you about the tale you want to hear of.
It could be funny and saltier to hear the same so-called intelligence about the infamous boulevard périphérique, the ring expressway that they built around central Paris in the postwar car era.
Even the Great Wall of China couldn't be any more effective in segregating the central city from its inner suburbs.

Anyway, the Socialists have run the inner city for 25 years by now. They failed to implement more highrises in arrondissements 12 and 13 (et je l'ai salement en travers de la gorge) because of their deal with the far left, so that's more than enough of them.
We've had enough of their social housing. It is time to move on.

I'd like Hidalgo's historic rival Rachida Dati to steal her seat as the mayor. I think Dati has a certain taste for luxury and grand ambitious schemes, which is precisely what we need in Paris at the moment.
She was born to hungry impoverished immigrants from Morocco and Algeria, yet managed to be pretty successful from working hard enough. I have some respect for her.
She must exactly be the type of badass, both cute and provocative woman that we need in town. She would upset everybody over here and we'd love her for that.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by theman23

Groceries are still a lot cheaper. A gallon of milk is $1 CAD cheaper on Walmart USA than Canada. Poultry is about $3 per lbs cheaper still in the USA. This is all from domestic production so prices wont be affected.

Okay, milk and chicken are cheaper stateside most of the time but I have actually seen places where they weren't. You are in BC right? I know that BC grocery prices tend to be higher than in Northern Ontario so I maybe shouldn't generalize too much for Canada.

But it's pretty obvious that Canadians aren't shopping across the border much anymore.

[MolsonExport]

when i moved to BC from Quebec in the early 90s, I was quite shocked at how much more expensive everything was. I had been under the impression that Quebec was more expensive (the PST was higher in Quebec back then vs. BC), but I was wrong. Gasoline, groceries (especially meats), transit, and utilities, beer and cigarettes (that was back in my bad habit days), not to mention rent, were considerably higher in BC. Fresh fruit (that which could be grown in the Okanagan Valley) was sometimes cheaper, and maybe fresh fish.

I've been back to BC many times since moving back to Montreal (then London), and lived in BC for a few months here and there in the 2000s, and it still seems things are more expensive on the West Coast.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

when i moved to BC from Quebec in the early 90s, I was quite shocked at how much more expensive everything was. I had been under the impression that Quebec was more expensive (the PST was higher in Quebec back then vs. BC), but I was wrong. Gasoline, groceries (especially meats), transit, and utilities, beer and cigarettes (that was back in my bad habit days), not to mention rent, were considerably higher in BC. Fresh fruit (that which could be grown in the Okanagan Valley) was sometimes cheaper, and maybe fresh fish.

I've been back to BC many times since moving back to Montreal (then London), and lived in BC for a few months here and there in the 2000s, and it still seems things are more expensive on the West Coast.

Quebec was always cheaper. Lower labour costs, cheaper electricity and generally less purchasing power all combine for cheaper prices. Gas is more in Montreal but BC is also super expensive. With the carbon tax increasing and Quebec gas taxes holding steady Ontario will pass non-Montreal Quebec. It would already be more in Ontario without the gas tax holiday Ford has had in place since soon after Ukraine invasion.

[Acajack]

Living in Quebec and on the border it has always seemed to me that anything you buy "retail" is almost always cheaper in Ontario with the exception of beer. Even wine is slightly cheaper in Ontario in spite of Quebec being the biggest wine-drinking province.

Note that the overall sales tax in Ontario is slightly lower than in Quebec though I've never known any one from Gatineau going to Ottawa to save on sales tax, even for larger items like expensive electronics. Gatinois do shop in Ottawa for sure but it's generally a question of selection, not price.

Other non-retail stuff like housing, electricity, daycare, transit, etc. is generally cheaper in Quebec, this is true.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Living in Quebec and on the border it has always seemed to me that anything you buy "retail" is almost always cheaper in Ontario with the exception of beer. Even wine is slightly cheaper in Ontario in spite of Quebec being the biggest wine-drinking province.

Note that the overall sales tax in Ontario is slightly lower than in Quebec though I've never known any one from Gatineau going to Ottawa to save on sales tax, even for larger items like expensive electronics. Gatinois do shop in Ottawa for sure but it's generally a question of selection, not price.

Other non-retail stuff like housing, electricity, daycare, transit, etc. is generally cheaper in Quebec, this is true.

Even supermarket food? I shop at Maxi a lot and it seems cheaper than any Ontario supermarket except Food Basics/No Frills which are pretty run down and with questionable quality.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Even supermarket food? I shop at Maxi a lot and it seems cheaper than any Ontario supermarket except Food Basics/No Frills which are pretty run down and with questionable quality.

Maxi (and Super C) to me are also kind of run down and can offer questionable quality.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Living in Quebec and on the border it has always seemed to me that anything you buy "retail" is almost always cheaper in Ontario with the exception of beer. Even wine is slightly cheaper in Ontario in spite of Quebec being the biggest wine-drinking province.

Note that the overall sales tax in Ontario is slightly lower than in Quebec though I've never known any one from Gatineau going to Ottawa to save on sales tax, even for larger items like expensive electronics. Gatinois do shop in Ottawa for sure but it's generally a question of selection, not price.

Other non-retail stuff like housing, electricity, daycare, transit, etc. is generally cheaper in Quebec, this is true.

Wine used to be cheaper in Ontario, but I find that in recent years it has been advantage Quebec, more often than not.

[New Brisavoine]

Deux solitudes, suite.

Main page of Le Devoir today:



Main page of The Globe and Mail:

[Acajack]

French politics get a lot more coverage in Quebec than British politics get in the ROC.

It's ironic because the French roots of Canadian francophones go back to the 1600s-1700s, whereas the British roots of Anglo-Canadians generally go back to the 1800-1900s. It's not uncommon for Anglo-Canadians alive today to have parents or grandparents born in the UK. That doesn't exist for long-established French Canadians as all family ties were lost centuries ago.

Of course, all of this pales in comparison to coverage of US politics in Canada.

I actually made the argument a couple of years ago that the US was in fact Canada's mother country. It was not a popular idea on SSP Canada.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240642&page=5

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

French politics get a lot more coverage in Quebec than British politics get in the ROC.

It's ironic because the French roots of Canadian francophones go back to the 1600s-1700s, whereas the British roots of Anglo-Canadians generally go back to the 1800-1900s. It's not uncommon for Anglo-Canadians alive today to have parents or grandparents born in the UK. That doesn't exist for long-established French Canadians as all family ties were lost centuries ago.

Of course, all of this pales in comparison to coverage of US politics in Canada.

I actually made the argument a couple of years ago that the US was in fact Canada's mother country. It was not a popular idea on SSP Canada.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240642&page=5

Yes French language is one of the if not the most important touchstones for Quebec society and naturally France is the key ally for this. English language isn't much of an issue for Anglo Canadians.

Another factor is Quebec still views this as a France Anglo founded country which implies connection to the "home" countries. I think most English Canadians have moved on from this and rapidly so in the last 30 years. Not a lot of loyalist and monarchist sentiment anymore.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course, all of this pales in comparison to coverage of US politics in Canada.

I actually made the argument a couple of years ago that the US was in fact Canada's mother country. It was not a popular idea on SSP Canada.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240642&page=5

Coverage of US politics is everywhere, and it's increasing, reaching crazy dimensions. When I was in middle high school, US presidential elections were hardly ever discussed. I remember the US presidential election when I was 12 y/o, our English teacher talked to us about it the next day, but it wasn't really news in French media in the weeks before, nobody inquiring about swing states (we didn't even know such a thing existed), and I remember thinking our teacher was really odd for having stayed awake at night to follow the election.

Nowadays, the media talk to us about US presidential elections almost 2 years before election day, going in all the details and intricacies of the crazy US electoral system. They devote programs after programs on French TV debating US politics, etc. It's insane!

These past few days, several people (journalists, pundits, etc) commenting the French political mess, were saying we wouldn't have "un shutdown" (en anglais dans le texte), as if everybody in France knew what a "shutdown" was, because our constitution is different from the US, so shutdown impossible, bla bla bla. Back when I was 12, nobody would have talked of "un shutdown", because nobody knew what it was.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Another factor is Quebec still views this as a France Anglo founded country which implies connection to the "home" countries.

I'm not sure this is what it is. Your first explanation was probably more to the point. Québec looks towards France because it's the largest Francophone country (in the developed world), and small as they are in North America they need the support of the largest Francophone country (which also happens to be the former motherland, but that's beside the point). That's also why they have painstakingly stuck to names coined in France since the 19th century (think "autoroutes" for example, instead of creating their own word... ROC hasn't stuck to "motorways" used in Britain, and that's just one example among hundreds).

If the US was a Francophone country, I'm sure Québec would seldom talk about French politics, or be interested in what's going on in France, at least not more than ROC is interested in what's going on in Britain.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Coverage of US politics is everywhere, and it's increasing, reaching crazy dimensions. When I was in middle high school, US presidential elections were hardly ever discussed. I remember the US presidential election when I was 12 y/o, our English teacher talked to us about it the next day, but it wasn't really news in French media in the weeks before, nobody inquiring about swing states (we didn't even know such a thing existed), and I remember thinking our teacher was really odd for having stayed awake at night to follow the election.

Nowadays, the media talk to us about US presidential elections almost 2 years before election day, going in all the details and intricacies of the crazy US electoral system. They devote programs after programs on French TV debating US politics, etc. It's insane!

These past few days, several people (journalists, pundits, etc) commenting the French political mess, were saying we wouldn't have "un shutdown" (en anglais dans le texte), as if everybody in France knew what a "shutdown" was, because our constitution is different from the US, so shutdown impossible, bla bla bla. Back when I was 12, nobody would have talked of "un shutdown", because nobody knew what it was.

I know but I can assure you the acculturation is nowhere on the level of you would see in Canada.

This fall there was a provincial election in British Columbia a week before the US election. A fellow from Vancouver I exchange with on Twitter was a candidate and when doing his porte-à-porte on a couple of occasions people were confused about which election they were voting in, and thought they'd be voting on Nov. 5 and choosing between Trump and Harris. This is not the first time I've heard of stuff like this. It's actually not that uncommon for some Canadians to think they are voting for the "President" of Canada in Canadian elections.