Federal Government & Politics II

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are you reading the same posts I am? Lots of people in here are all-in on PP's CPC.

I notice even those who originally were upset by him becoming the CPC leader no longer care so long as he's ahead of Trudeau in the polls. So long as he can deliver them to the promised land they can suppress their gag reflex.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Airboy

This Current Conservative is not my PC conservative. I cannot see myself voting for this style any time soon. If I have to Hold my nose I will and vote for someone else. And I have done that 3 times now since my MP is Michael Cooper.

What you see happening in Alberta with the UCP is what I expect to see from the CPC.
Other that ax the tax I don't see anything that says vote for my vision.

I don't feel the Libs have been totally incompetent since they were in minority and have to cooperate with other parties. Hell Harper Learned that his first term. I don't see PP or the CPC doing that at all.

But its time for a change in leadership in the liberals.

This! Non Albertans don't realize how horrible the UCP is and how much the current CPC is driven by the same "grass roots" organizations like Take Back Alberta. It's all grievance and fashioning themselves after the Trump Republican cult in the US. Danielle Smith just enshrined 3 new pillars into the provincial Charter of Rights and Freedoms all pandering to the anti vax, pro gun rural base.

I'm just curious how the UCP will whine about the evil Federal government when PeePee's in charge. I honestly believe he will work in tandem with the Conservative Premiers to privatize healthcare, undermine environmental regulations, CuT rED t@Pe! such as safety standards, and work in lockstep with the oil and gas sector to greenwash their industry and remove pesky carbon taxes and reviews. Also I expect him to eliminate child benefits for parents and replace it with a tedious and paltry tax credit. He'll try and eliminate Pharmacare and Dental Care programs. The only thing I could see him doing that might help anything is with the military. Though given his petty partisan streak, I could see him cancelling projects signed by the Liberals and throwing the entire process into chaos and adding years to delivery. See Danielle Smith's handling of the Greenline in Calgary. In fairness Trudeau also did this. In the end though we got a cheaper F-35 order. My concern is more about the subs.

Curious how he will build more housing?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Airboy

I don't feel the Libs have been totally incompetent since they were in minority and have to cooperate with other parties. Hell Harper Learned that his first term. I don't see PP or the CPC doing that at all.

But its time for a change in leadership in the liberals.

Running the greatest immigration, TFW and international student ponzi scheme Canada has ever seen to push for sub-saharan levels of population growth is considered not "totally incompetent"?

Wow the bar for competence must be so low for you, as this happened under minority government.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I'm just curious how the UCP will whine about the evil Federal government when PeePee's in charge. I honestly believe he will work in tandem with the Conservative Premiers to (…) CuT rED t@Pe! such as safety standards, (…)

(…)

Curious how he will build more housing?

The last two pages of this thread should answer your question: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...7#post10289837

If Poilievre cuts chowhou’s food safety inspectors from 99 to 1, then that’s how Poilievre could actually deliver the “more affordable food for Canadians” that he’s promising (the cost of the 99 inspectors is obviously priced into the food).

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by Airboy

This Current Conservative is not my PC conservative. I cannot see myself voting for this style any time soon. If I have to Hold my nose I will and vote for someone else. And I have done that 3 times now since my MP is Michael Cooper.

What you see happening in Alberta with the UCP is what I expect to see from the CPC.
Other that ax the tax I don't see anything that says vote for my vision.

I don't feel the Libs have been totally incompetent since they were in minority and have to cooperate with other parties. Hell Harper Learned that his first term. I don't see PP or the CPC doing that at all.

But its time for a change in leadership in the liberals.

The best way to achieve that is to vote them out

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny24

The best way to achieve that is to vote them out

Given JTs stubbornness and intransigence, it is the only way to make this happen.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by jonny24

The best way to achieve that is to vote them out

By electing the NDP.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Gresto

By electing the NDP.

Why would people elect the people who enabled the liberal government that spurred a housing crisis and suppressed workers wages?

The NDP should have been keeping the liberals in check ensuring that working Canadians (the people the NDP are supposed to represent) don’t get fucked over. Instead they did nothing.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

The last two pages of this thread should answer your question: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...7#post10289837

If Poilievre cuts chowhou’s food safety inspectors from 99 to 1, then that’s how Poilievre could actually deliver the “more affordable food for Canadians” that he’s promising (the cost of the 99 inspectors is obviously priced into the food).

Alberta tried that and close to 500 people were poisoned by E. Coli served to children in daycare. The UCP drastically reduced the budget for food inspectors resulting in far fewer inspections. Thankfully no one died but some children developed kidney damage. No thanks.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/e-col...-safety-report

It’s almost like regulations exist for a reason.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Gresto

By electing the NDP.

They’re basically the incumbents. Canadians want change (and I can’t blame them), which is why they have to elect Poilievre.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Why would people elect the people who enabled the liberal government that spurred a housing crisis and suppressed workers wages?

The NDP should have been keeping the liberals in check ensuring that working Canadians (the people the NDP are supposed to represent) don’t get fucked over. Instead they did nothing.

Exactly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Alberta tried that and close to 500 people were poisoned by E. Coli served to children in daycare. The UCP drastically reduced the budget for food inspectors resulting in far fewer inspections. Thankfully no one died but some children developer kidney damage. No thanks.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/e-col...-safety-report

It’s almost like regulations exist for a reason.

One name for Ontarians: Walkerton.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Alberta tried that and close to 500 people were poisoned by E. Coli served to children in daycare. The UCP drastically reduced the budget for food inspectors resulting in far fewer inspections. Thankfully no one died but some children developer kidney damage. No thanks.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/e-col...-safety-report

It’s almost like regulations exist for a reason.

Did you read the linked thread? We're talking about excessive regulation, not normal regulation.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Alberta tried that and close to 500 people were poisoned by E. Coli served to children in daycare. The UCP drastically reduced the budget for food inspectors resulting in far fewer inspections. Thankfully no one died but some children developer kidney damage. No thanks.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/e-col...-safety-report

It’s almost like regulations exist for a reason.

Given that’s it’s undeniable that there exists a point where there’s too much regulation (unlike some other things in life for which there’s never “too much”), the optimal amount of regulation unarguably has to be at the middle of that general not-necessarily-symmetric bell curve (x axis being “quantity of regulations”, y axis being “positiveness of outcome”).

In other words, it’s possible to have situations where less regulations would be an improvement (chowhou’s example being an obvious one). This is literally a truism.

Now, the next step is to see whether you’re among those who think the current construction codes and newest building standards are too lenient, or if you instead agree with PP and would like to cut red tape so we can “build the homes”

[Airboy]

Sorry can make me vote Michael Cooper no matter who is leader.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Given that’s it’s undeniable that there exists a point where there’s too much regulation (unlike some other things in life for which there’s never “too much”), the optimal amount of regulation unarguably has to be at the middle of that general not-necessarily-symmetric bell curve (x axis being “quantity of regulations”, y axis being “positiveness of outcome”).

What are a few hundred innocent people getting dangerously ill to find that out?

Now, the next step is to see whether you’re among those who think the current construction codes and newest building standards are too lenient, or if you instead agree with PP and would like to cut red tape so we can “build the homes”

Except the real reason we can’t build enough homes is lack of trades people and excessive immigration. We shouldn’t build shittier homes that are more dangerous or might be built unsafely or in unsuitable places that may cause residents health problems in the future. Nevermind unsafe construction resulting in property damage.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Except the real reason we can’t build enough homes is lack of trades people and excessive immigration. We shouldn’t build shittier homes that are more dangerous or might be built unsafely or in unsuitable places that may cause residents health problems in the future. Nevermind unsafe construction resulting in property damage.

Overly strict building codes drive up the cost of construction, such that developers can't afford to build homes at prices people can afford without taking a loss. Non-profit developers (ie. those not making any profit off the construction) report costs upwards of $400,000 a unit even when they got the land for free. I work with one in Kingston. The difference between the 2022 Ontario Building Code and the 1999 Ontario Building Code is an extra $100,000-$150,000 of construction cost. If we went back to the 1999 Building Code we could build 30% more non-market housing for the same funding envelope.

It's not like homes built in 1999 were dangerous death traps. The main difference maker in these costs are tighter insulation rules and other energy-related requirements (which, as I pointed out in my post, have been shown to actually be a net negative to carbon emissions in provinces that use mostly green energy, as more efficient homes require more materials) but there are some niche rules in things like stair widths that also really drive up costs. Better to have a home that is built to older (and still perfectly adequate) standards than to have no home at all, which is the practical consequence of these excessive building codes.

We got here because the bureaucrats who write building codes, when evaluating updates to them, put basically zero consideration on how a change could impact the cost of construction. We have this icky mindset that assumes that costs borne by private sector don't exist (instead of acknowledging that every such cost is ultimately borne by everyone downstream of it). Instead of doing a proper cost-benefit analysis, they're assuming the cost is a non-factor. IMO, the correct way forward would be to roll back to the 1999 building code as an interim measure, and when the next round of full code changes are written, introduce a cost-benefit analysis mechanism.

[1overcosc]

(realizing I was about to add a big exposition on housing, so I'm moving over to the Housing Bubble thread )

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

What are a few hundred innocent people getting dangerously ill to find that out?

People personally known to me have been killed by Quebec’s excessive building regulations, so if all you have to offer me is people “getting ill”, I’ll just shrug it off.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

People personally known to me have been killed by Quebec’s excessive building regulations, so if all you have to offer me is people “getting ill”, I’ll just shrug it off.

Huh? Colour me skeptical that a building code killed someone you know directly. Even if true that’s a pretty shitty attitude to say ‘meh’ to children losing kidneys to E.Coli and having lifelong complications because some ignorant asshole decided to cut food safety inspections to move their budget a decimal point over.