Canadian City Proposals II - Page 34

WhipperSnapper · #**661** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 2:46 PM**

The floating box is just completely unnecessary. It is a cool take on an addition however, I can't see cantilevering the floor plate off of the two small cores being viable. This is just bait to get zoning approval. It'll change to a facade at a later stage of development.

WhipperSnapper · #**662** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 2:49 PM**

GFA of 30,000 square metres for only 341 units? 30,000 square metres would be around 450 units in Toronto.

J.OT13 · #**663** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

GFA of 30,000 square metres for only 341 units? 30,000 square metres would be around 450 units in Toronto.

Ottawa still building a few family sized units I guess.

rbt · #**664** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 10:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ottawa still building a few family sized units I guess.

Yep. Buyers can afford them, largely because construction costs are quite a bit lower in Ottawa than in Toronto.

If you gifted 200 young families in Toronto land, and donated architect/engineering/legal time they'd still struggle to cover the construction costs for 200 x 1000 sqft units.

YOWetal · #**665** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbt

Yep. Buyers can afford them, largely because construction costs are quite a bit lower in Ottawa than in Toronto.

If you gifted 200 young families in Toronto land, and donated architect/engineering/legal time they'd still struggle to cover the construction costs for 200 x 1000 sqft units.

Construction costs? or other soft costs? The labour rates, raw material costs should be veryu similar. It's development costs, cash in lieu etc that might be more but I think it's mostly land cost that is the difference in Toronto vs Ottawa prices.

suburbanite · #**666** Posted **Sep 17, 2024, 11:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbt

Yep. Buyers can afford them, largely because construction costs are quite a bit lower in Ottawa than in Toronto.

If you gifted 200 young families in Toronto land, and donated architect/engineering/legal time they'd still struggle to cover the construction costs for 200 x 1000 sqft units.

The difference in construction costs between Ottawa and Toronto are negligible in the overall scheme of affordability.

When demand is driven largely by people looking for a unit to live in, who earn a local income, then prices and unit mix will trend towards what the local homeowners can actually afford/want. When demand is fueled by people who want simple commoditized investor units and are willing to pay a premium, then the market will trend towards the path of least resistance.

The Toronto market is willing (or at least was) to pay well over $1,000 PSF for shoebox units, regardless of whether the developer spent $350 or $420 PSF to build it, and so that is what they will sell for. The difference flows through to the residual value of the land and what developers are willing to pay to acquire density that they can sell at $1,000 PSF+.

rbt · #**667** Posted **Sep 18, 2024, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite

The difference in construction costs between Ottawa and Toronto are negligible in the overall scheme of affordability.

Hmm. Is that chart recent? GTA construction inflation of concrete residential has been much much higher than elsewhere in Canada over the last few years (Stats Canada). Closer to 20% in the GTA vs 10% for most of Canada (including Ottawa), and Toronto's 2017 reference rates were higher to begin with. I don't think they say why in the free data.

I get a pin-hole view of construction (work in an unrelated field but see a few numbers here and there, so largely anecdotal) and central Toronto numbers were closer to $520/sqft (includes finishes) in late 2023 and Ottawa closer to $380/sqft for projects of similar scale.

Toronto tenders for public housing seemed to come in at around $450/sqft in 2023 for fairly tiny projects so what I was seeing didn't seem unusual.

EDIT: It would be great if the cost difference was largely just land values because that's probably the easiest component for a large number of angry renters who get in control of either Toronto or Ontario to change; automatic up-zone within 1km of rapid transit stations (including existing ones along Danforth) and push through an MPAC reassessment. Small business and landlords along Yonge got wiped out by rapidly increasing property taxes; this urgency to redevelop could be replicated.

WhipperSnapper · #**668** Posted **Sep 18, 2024, 9:05 PM**

Always with upzoning. Still looking at it from today's investor driven market. Developable land is determined by developers as they will only pay so much to be within that percentage land costs range. I think if local end users were driving development than you would see 8 storey mid-rises being planned for proposed 35 storey shoebox towers now. End users purchase one unit. 400 takes a long time to sell. You don't need anywhere near 400 investors to sell out a building.

That would also open up the market to more developers.

Maldive · #**669** Posted **Sep 20, 2024, 4:02 PM**

1837 Bayview | 100.6m | 27s | Gupta | Arcadis l site demo complete

PL1

UT

2475 Dundas Street West | 109.67m | 29s | Fairway | BDP Quadrangle l pre-construction

Affordable rental, condo and retail in the Junction Triangle.

UT

Maldive · #**670** Posted **Sep 22, 2024, 3:45 PM**

7 Labatt | ?m | 48 & 44s | TAS | Sweeny&Co l Redesign

Located on the east side of the Regent Park master-planned community, this has been redesigned by Sweeny&Co as 2 towers with 1119 residential units.

AlbertC

craner · #**671** Posted **Sep 23, 2024, 12:11 AM**

More developments, more people mark new era for downtown Kelowna

http://https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/506211/More-developments-and-more-people-downtown

TorontoDrew · #**672** Posted **Sep 23, 2024, 11:31 PM**

I like 7 Labatt. It will block the view of some of Daniel's less attractive Regent Park towers from view from the east.

GeneralLeeTPHLS · #**673** Posted **Sep 24, 2024, 3:47 AM**

Wow, they already knocked down the houses on Bayview by that church? That's a five minute walk from me...I haven't gone that way in a few weeks. This tower will look huge, but it's near an LRT stop, so it makes sense to be there.

That Ottawa proposal is interesting, though I'm not sure I'd say its the greatest with regards to its site planning.

nclsteba · #**674** Posted **Sep 24, 2024, 2:13 PM**

A new project in Quebec City with a rooftop pool (just to upset
WhipperSnapper

) :

https://lecobalt.com/

MolsonExport · #**675** Posted **Sep 24, 2024, 5:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

More developments, more people mark new era for downtown Kelowna

http://https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/506211/More-developments-and-more-people-downtown

Can't get over how much Kelowna has grown up (especially downtown, which was a hollow shell) since I lived there in 1994-95.

FrAnKs · #**676** Posted **Yesterday, 5:48 AM**

20fl. proposal in the St Roch district of downtown Quebec City
(part of a larger parking redevelopment called “Ilôt Dorchester”)
https://www.journaldequebec.com/2024...user-du-retard

davidivivid · #**677** Posted **Yesterday, 12:21 PM**

Very happy to learn about this one this morning.

Finally a solid proposal for what is one of the last big parking lot downtown. The overall project would include a grocery store, shops, 390 appartments (15% of which would be affordable housing), a 175 rooms hotel, etc.

It will have to go through a consultation phase since the promoter is asking for a modification to the programme particulier d’urbanisme (PPU). You can see in the last picture what the City is currently allowing and what the promoter is asking for.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...-roch-logement

MolsonExport · #**678** Posted **Yesterday, 3:16 PM**

Looks like great infill for QC.

Pavlov · #**679** Posted **Yesterday, 6:06 PM**

Another large-scale (for Calgary, anyway) development proposed in the Beltline neighbourhood:

It includes four residential towers which will be built in phases. Demolition work on the site has begun.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**680** Posted **Yesterday, 8:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbt

Hmm. Is that chart recent? GTA construction inflation of concrete residential has been much much higher than elsewhere in Canada over the last few years (Stats Canada). Closer to 20% in the GTA vs 10% for most of Canada (including Ottawa), and Toronto's 2017 reference rates were higher to begin with. I don't think they say why in the free data.

I get a pin-hole view of construction (work in an unrelated field but see a few numbers here and there, so largely anecdotal) and central Toronto numbers were closer to $520/sqft (includes finishes) in late 2023 and Ottawa closer to $380/sqft for projects of similar scale.

Toronto tenders for public housing seemed to come in at around $450/sqft in 2023 for fairly tiny projects so what I was seeing didn't seem unusual.

EDIT: It would be great if the cost difference was largely just land values because that's probably the easiest component for a large number of angry renters who get in control of either Toronto or Ontario to change; automatic up-zone within 1km of rapid transit stations (including existing ones along Danforth) and push through an MPAC reassessment. Small business and landlords along Yonge got wiped out by rapidly increasing property taxes; this urgency to redevelop could be replicated.

That's from Altus Group's 2024 Cost Guide.

It's a tool to help with high level budgeting for projects - and it's hard construction costs only. Those costs per sf are for above grade areas only - includes a slab on grade and footings.

There's another section for underground parking structures if you need to add that.