Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Burquitlaman

Footage of the front lines. It's always a shock how Western society tolerates this insanity. As a first generation immigrant to Canada, I always defend the rule of law, the common law, and other institutions that make Canada better than the country I came from. But one of Western society's biggest faults is its acceptance of degeneracy. To an extent you cannot have liberal values and freedom without being accepting of people. But there is a limit and over the past two decades most Western societies broke through the red line.

Driving through East Hastings is not enough. Watch it through the eyes of someone that's new to the city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFUR1XJV4Rc

It has definitely been a situation of the frog in slowly boiling water. Things just gradually got worse and people who don't leave the area / their bubble enough don't fully realize how much worse and inappropriate the situation has become.

I have been living in Japan for 11 years now and coming home now is shocking at what people are not only putting up with but openly supporting. I use to push my friends and students to visit Vancouver but now I am actually hesitant to do so because I feel embarrassed by what the might see and encounter in the city (I try to push more outdoor adventures now and to avoid the cities).

There was actually a Japanese travel show that came to Vancouver last year, but they actually scrapped their original production plans and instead did an expose on the homeless crisis in the city (focusing on the open drug use and general harassment from aggressive panhandlers, along with people living in campers due to the housing crisis, it was really really embarrassing). These shows highlighting what has happened in Canada, the US, and other western nations has put a halt on even the idea of tinkering with Japan's strict drug laws here, and honestly, I can't help but think that's for the best now, even if they are too struct for my personal liking.

The super open and super liberal approach do drug use, addiction, homelessness and crime is obviously a failed experiment at this point and doubling down on more of the same is not the answer.

I have had several family members become drug addicts and even spent time on the DTES, but they are recovered now with careers and housing and they did it by leaving these communities, going to rehab, and quitting cold turkey. Not playing into the more free drugs and the Eric Cartman "I can do what I want!" mentality.

Now, I'm not 100% against help centres that offer clean doses of drugs, but they should come with a complete ban on open drug use, such drugs should not leave the premises, and they should come with a heavy push for a rehab program.

No more pandering bullshit.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Dissecting this (I'm presuming your account of events is accurate):

I suppose death by OD or stabbing is as likely as someone slipping on a piece of banana skin, hit the head and die in front of the SRO. If that's the case, I digress.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It has definitely been a situation of the frog in slowly boiling water. Things just gradually got worse and people who don't leave the area / their bubble enough don't fully realize how much worse and inappropriate the situation has become.

I have been living in Japan for 11 years now and coming home now is shocking at what people are not only putting up with but openly supporting. I use to push my friends and students to visit Vancouver but now I am actually hesitant to do so because I feel embarrassed by what the might see and encounter in the city (I try to push more outdoor adventures now and to avoid the cities).

There was actually a Japanese travel show that came to Vancouver last year, but they actually scrapped their original production plans and instead did an expose on the homeless crisis in the city (focusing on the open drug use and general harassment from aggressive panhandlers, along with people living in campers due to the housing crisis, it was really really embarrassing). These shows highlighting what has happened in Canada, the US, and other western nations has put a halt on even the idea of tinkering with Japan's strict drug laws here, and honestly, I can't help but think that's for the best now, even if they are too struct for my personal liking.

The super open and super liberal approach do drug use, addiction, homelessness and crime is obviously a failed experiment at this point and doubling down on more of the same is not the answer.

I have had several family members become drug addicts and even spent time on the DTES, but they are recovered now with careers and housing and they did it by leaving these communities, going to rehab, and quitting cold turkey. Not playing into the more free drugs and the Eric Cartman "I can do what I want!" mentality.

Now, I'm not 100% against help centres that offer clean doses of drugs, but they should come with a complete ban on open drug use, such drugs should not leave the premises, and they should come with a heavy push for a rehab program.

No more pandering bullshit.

there was a guy on a news clip the other morning, his daughter fell into the drug scene and she was taken or maybe forced into getting treatment as it was allowed at the time and she is now recovered and gone to school and is now working as a nurse and as a father he was glad that she was able to go that route, the story was about how we can no longer force people into treatment but like this man's daughter it was needed and more people are saying that we need to bring back I don't know what it is called or referred to as but we need more treatment spaces, less enabling and some people need to be forced or put into the proper care. We need to be funding these places as a priority.

[jollyburger]

I wonder how long until CCTV gets thrown back onto the table.

Vancouver to boost Gastown policing, in bid ‘to bring back a sense of safety’: Mayor

Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim says the city is taking immediate steps to improve public safety in the Gastown neighbourhood.


Sim says the city will work with the Vancouver Police Department to establish a community policing centre in Gastown as residents and businesses there say they want increased visibility of officers.

A statement from Sim said more focused attention will be brought to the area using several police resources and tactics.

He said the approach will address street-entrenched offenders and help the business community with violent robberies associated with repeat shoplifters.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10773113/...-safety-mayor/

[logan5]

You can make the streets safer by bringing in high density development. It really is that easy. Even one 60 story rental tower with 600 units would make a difference. Now build 20 of those in the dtes, then you will start to see the tide turn.

[mcj]

More enforcement and just a general presence of cops walking around is needed, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. More density for sure, but that takes time to mature. Some other immediate solutions would be (in addition to the enforcement):

• Closing Gastown to vehicle traffic again, it was much more pleasant walking down the middle of the road instead of being crammed on the sidewalk and much more room to avoid any excrement.
  
• They could also try activating Blood Alley Square and opening the venue finally.
  
• Just cleaning the sidewalks/roadway and subsidizing repairs for damaged storefronts.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by mcj

[*]Closing Gastown to vehicle traffic again, it was much more pleasant walking down the middle of the road instead of being crammed on the sidewalk and much more room to avoid any excrement.

Can't, the designer print shops need doorstop parking for their clients from Point Grey. /s

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mcj

More enforcement and just a general presence of cops walking around is needed, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. More density for sure, but that takes time to mature. Some other immediate solutions would be (in addition to the enforcement):

• Closing Gastown to vehicle traffic again, it was much more pleasant walking down the middle of the road instead of being crammed on the sidewalk and much more room to avoid any excrement.
  
• They could also try activating Blood Alley Square and opening the venue finally.
  
• Just cleaning the sidewalks/roadway and subsidizing repairs for damaged storefronts.

Crammed onto the sidewalks? That hadn’t been a problem since Water Street was redone in the original Gastown revitalization. Businesses were able to prove with hard facts closing Water Street to cars cost them business. Pretty hard to argue with the numbers.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Can't, the designer print shops need doorstop parking for their clients from Point Grey. /s

Because peddling alcohol to people spending most of their paycheque on rent is a far nobler calling.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Because peddling alcohol to people spending most of their paycheque on rent is a far nobler calling.

One increases foot traffic, the other gets rid of it. We both know which is better for the overall streetscape.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by logan5

You can make the streets safer by bringing in high density development. It really is that easy. Even one 60 story rental tower with 600 units would make a difference. Now build 20 of those in the dtes, then you will start to see the tide turn.

I vaguely recall that as an extension to Project 200, Strathcona was supposed to be redeveloped into higher density residential offerings. That died along with Project 200 because of the public opposition to razing an entire low-income neighborhood.

However between then and now we fell into a housing crunch and rules on the redevelopment of single-family zoned land to multi-family changed both at the civic and provincial level. While I don't advocate for renewal in the DTES yet (Considering how slow it's been even to deal with the Sahotas, there's no need to set a timeline on that neighborhood), there is still a lot of space in Strathcona to convert into hundreds or even thousands of low-income and rental housing projects and considerably less desire to preserve low density, or listen to residents about how they are being forced out.

Closing Gastown to vehicle traffic again, it was much more pleasant walking down the middle of the road instead of being crammed on the sidewalk and much more room to avoid any excrement.

The general consensus was that full-time road closures hurt business more than it helped with walk-in traffic. Beyond looking at closures between certain hours on weekends I don't see them trying that one again.

[Migrant_Coconut]

In the absence of actual hard data, I wouldn't call "Postmedia interviewing 3-4 businesses who depend on drive-ins" a "general consensus."

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

In the absence of actual hard data, I wouldn't call "Postmedia interviewing 3-4 businesses who depend on drive-ins" a "general consensus."

I remember they discussed it on the radio and some business owners were quoted saying that they thought the street closures had helped and thought it was a good thing, the most vocal against it seemed to be the spaghetti factory. Other factors were involved in declining customers, which most restaurants have experienced this past summer, and blaming it on the closure was an easy thing to blame.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

In the absence of actual hard data, I wouldn't call "Postmedia interviewing 3-4 businesses who depend on drive-ins" a "general consensus."

3-4 businesses? Where did you get that low figure?

…Businesses say the road closure has prevented tour buses from dropping off visitors closer to shops and restaurants.

“We’ve heard from over 30 businesses who are feeling a negative crunch here from an economic perspective,” said Wally Wargolet with the Gastown Business Improvement Society.

“For the first time ever, some restaurants are laying people off at the height of the summer season.”

Buckley says his restaurant would normally employ around 140 workers during peak season, but this year he has only had to bring on 110.….

https://globalnews.ca/news/10674212/...omplaints/amp/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

3-4 businesses? Where did you get that low figure?

That's how many the Sun interviewed (two of which aren't even on Water Street). Good ol' Postmedia.

Out of hundreds of businesses in Gastown, cherrypicking thirty who want to blame everything on one street closure is bad polling. Close it again next year, see if the pattern repeats, this time get a larger sample of the neighbourhood and its visitors - that's how you form a general consensus.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I remember they discussed it on the radio and some business owners were quoted saying that they thought the street closures had helped and thought it was a good thing, the most vocal against it seemed to be the spaghetti factory. Other factors were involved in declining customers, which most restaurants have experienced this past summer, and blaming it on the closure was an easy thing to blame.

If this is the CBC Radio interview you are talking about then it was one business owner and it was right when the pedestrian zone started.

Since March, much of the street and surrounding area has been under construction as crews repaired brickwork and patched asphalt. Now, planters and patio infrastructure have been installed, cutting off car access.

Owners of nearby businesses said the construction and temporary lack of foot traffic caused them to lose revenue.

In an interview with CBC's On the Coast, Matthew Senecal-Junkeer, the owner of the café Birds and the Beets, said it's been nice to see people walking around in the square. He said he's seen an uptick in business since the area reopened.

"I'm liking it," Senecal-Junkeer said. "I was hopeful and optimistic, and seeing it in practice, I think there's real potential."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...reet-1.7254571

Looks like VFS gave up on their campus down there.

https://www.spacelist.ca/listings/bc..._street#816944

Landlords are going to have to slash their rents if they have any hope of keeping the area going.

Somn opened up in April 2022 in Gastown and they are already jumping ship

https://somnhome.com/blogs/journal/s...or-earth-month

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Looks like VFS gave up on their campus down there.

https://www.spacelist.ca/listings/bc..._street#816944

That may have been space VFS used, but it's not the main campus space they occupy. They took over the huge basement space that was built for the short lived and disastrous 'Storyeum' tourist experience.

Somn Home were started by the previous owners of Orling and Wu, who had a Gastown store, and later one in Kitsilano, for years, so they knew the area well. If they're closing the store, the decision to open a bricks and mortar store selling $1,000 bedding sets in Gastown obviously hasn't paid off, so they'll presumably go back to the way they started, as an online business, although I think they also sell in Harry Rosen.

[jollyburger]

Maybe they're keeping the basement level of the building with the studios/green screen. They're also dumping 392 West Hastings St (available December 2024) that was used for Makeup Design.

https://www.showcase.com/392-w-hasti...-1k6/32744971/