Winnipeg Construction X

[Sheepish]

The concept of the park in itself is NOT the problem. For many years that was a wonderful place to sit. The Jazz Festival hosted concerts there, and it was all great.
The issue is that open drug and alcohol consumption has been allowed to proliferate along with homeless encampments and bus sheltering, and what used to be a 'Main Street/Higgins' problem is now a Portage Ave and downtown problem. Why this is happening is another question. Though it has been years in the making, Covid and the vacuum that occurred downtown certainly exacerbated the problem. But agree that a redesign will not fix this.

[Jeff]

the area should stay fenced off "for unforeseen construction delays" or be used as a portage place redevelopment staging zone for a couple years and reset the habits of those who have been dragging it down.

[bon_vivant]

Originally Posted by drew

Putting a building on this lot is the best option.

IIRC Air Canada created this problem for themselves by requiring this lot to be empty so the windows on their new building had a "view".

AC park was an afterthought. The buildings beside it were supposed to be demolished in the '80s as part of the original North Portage redevelopment plan. AC was promised a full street-facing view but IIRC the owner of those buildings refused to sell and by then the AC building was already under construction. They City messed up and the park was a consolation prize for AC.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by Jeff

the area should stay fenced off "for unforeseen construction delays" or be used as a portage place redevelopment staging zone for a couple years and reset the habits of those who have been dragging it down.

I cynically think this is the actual plan.

They're spending >$2M for the excuse to close the park for a while and hope the usuals relocate elsewhere.

[Sheepish]

AC Park was not an afterthought.
There was at one point a 3 block long park facing Portage on the Northside. Then the plan was for what was considered 'window park' which was intended to connect with the expanded Central Park.
But whatever the intention, for the first 20 plus years of it's life, there were no issues. It was a great place for lunch in the summer...food carts were set up, and there always concerts. The transformation is sad. The fault lies not with the park but with the change in the business climate on Portage Ave.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Jeff

the area should stay fenced off "for unforeseen construction delays" or be used as a portage place redevelopment staging zone for a couple years and reset the habits of those who have been dragging it down.

The bolded piece is the exact sort of attitude the created the current situation.

"Main St is a problem" - lets close down those beverage rooms.

"St Regis and Marlborough hotel are a plaque on downtown" - lets close them down.

etc.

Thinking the issues with homeless and addictions can be solved by just kicking the can somewhere else does not solve the problems. Rather we are going to be better off directly addressing the issues where they are currently happening.

[BuildUpWpg]

I can't see anyone willing to be "angelic" enough (like True North is trying to do with Portage Place) to build anything new on Portage. What I don't understand is with all the patrols downtown (beat cops and downtown biz patrols) they don't do anything to stop the drug trade there. Have patrols there full time!

Originally Posted by drew

Putting a building on this lot is the best option.

IIRC Air Canada created this problem for themselves by requiring this lot to be empty so the windows on their new building had a "view".

[BuildUpWpg]

What proof do you have of that? Do you spend a lot of time downtown watching the bike lanes?

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Nobody uses bike lanes!!

[bon_vivant]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

AC Park was not an afterthought.
There was at one point a 3 block long park facing Portage on the Northside. Then the plan was for what was considered 'window park' which was intended to connect with the expanded Central Park.
But whatever the intention, for the first 20 plus years of it's life, there were no issues. It was a great place for lunch in the summer...food carts were set up, and there always concerts. The transformation is sad. The fault lies not with the park but with the change in the business climate on Portage Ave.

See the sketch of the original proposal. The new mall was supposed to be built on the south side and outward onto the existing avenue. That section of Portage was to be diverted around the project, go along side the new AC building, then divert back to the original ave on the other side of the development. That's why the building is set back from the street like that. The diverted section of Portage avenue was to meet at the front of the AC building, there was not supposed to be any park there at all. But the plans changed and AC was committed to building on that spot. Three blocks of buildings were expropriated to build Portage Place and a temporary park was put there while construction plans were finalized.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by BuildUpWpg

What proof do you have of that? Do you spend a lot of time downtown watching the bike lanes?

He meant that mockingly about rrskylar

[Sheepish]

That was Lloyd's original wish for Portage Place. It was never given serious consideration.
Yes there was a temporary gravel 'park' on Portage before the mall was actually constructed. There was concept for a promenade park on North side of Portage, that included where AC Park is. AC Park was the last bit of park in the plan that actually came to fruition. Again, it was part of what was envisioned as 'window park' that extended to the expanded Central Park that reached Ellice. The problem is not the park, but rather the changes in the social fabric of the city over the years. To offer a comparison...given all the people on street medians and corners asking for money, and all the people sleeping in bus shelters...medians and shelters are NOT the problem. Unfortunately this forum has gotten bogged down in this discussion, but it is instructive when we consider what is holding back more development downtown. It is a chicken/egg question...for example, did the loss of Eatons and The Bay help cause the problem or is it a result? Was Portage Place a failure because of the decline downtown, or did it's design help cause it? Now...what will the result of the reimagined Portage Place be...a catalyst for more development or just more of the same?

[FactaNV]

Bit of an odd question, why are Kennedy St and Edmonton St relatively underdeveloped compared to the rest of downtown? There seems to be a lot of surface lots and one-two stories compared to the rest of downtown. Just a fluke of development or some niche cause?

[EndIt]

Originally Posted by BuildUpWpg

I can't see anyone willing to be "angelic" enough (like True North is trying to do with Portage Place) to build anything new on Portage. What I don't understand is with all the patrols downtown (beat cops and downtown biz patrols) they don't do anything to stop the drug trade there. Have patrols there full time!

Harassing users and street level dealers isn't going to get at the root of Winnipeg's drug problem. Have we learned nothing from The Wire?

[bon_vivant]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

That was Lloyd's original wish for Portage Place. It was never given serious consideration.
Yes there was a temporary gravel 'park' on Portage before the mall was actually constructed. There was concept for a promenade park on North side of Portage, that included where AC Park is. AC Park was the last bit of park in the plan that actually came to fruition. Again, it was part of what was envisioned as 'window park' that extended to the expanded Central Park that reached Ellice. The problem is not the park, but rather the changes in the social fabric of the city over the years. To offer a comparison...given all the people on street medians and corners asking for money, and all the people sleeping in bus shelters...medians and shelters are NOT the problem. Unfortunately this forum has gotten bogged down in this discussion, but it is instructive when we consider what is holding back more development downtown. It is a chicken/egg question...for example, did the loss of Eatons and The Bay help cause the problem or is it a result? Was Portage Place a failure because of the decline downtown, or did it's design help cause it? Now...what will the result of the reimagined Portage Place be...a catalyst for more development or just more of the same?

Sadly no, the plan wasn't seriously considered. Too bold (expensive) for Winnipeg. I'm not sure AC got the memo though! It's unfortunate that the park couldn't have spanned the entire frontage of the AC building because it always looked like an afterthought to me, even before it went downhill. I distinctly remember those other buildings being earmarked for expropriation. I sure liked the original proposal a lot more than what we ended up with—not that it would have solved the problems of the day any better. I'm still unclear on how AC's park was supposed to connect with Central Park, though.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The bolded piece is the exact sort of attitude the created the current situation.

"Main St is a problem" - lets close down those beverage rooms.

"St Regis and Marlborough hotel are a plaque on downtown" - lets close them down.

etc.

Thinking the issues with homeless and addictions can be solved by just kicking the can somewhere else does not solve the problems. Rather we are going to be better off directly addressing the issues where they are currently happening.

I llived in Edmonton for a few years, and I watched it deteriorate to the point of making Winnipeg look like a picnic. It is REALLY bad in the city. There are like 10 city blocks north of Downtown that are tent cities. Many parks downtown and in the suburbs are overrun by homeless. Downtown is worse than it is here.

This is far from a Winnipeg problem. From what I am hearing Vancouver is worse.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Bit of an odd question, why are Kennedy St and Edmonton St relatively underdeveloped compared to the rest of downtown? There seems to be a lot of surface lots and one-two stories compared to the rest of downtown. Just a fluke of development or some niche cause?

It’s likely a result of the footprint of our downtown being way too big for a city of our population. You have larger development along Main, Portage, Memorial and Broadway and lower scale developments along streets like Edmonton, Kennedy, Fort, Garry, etc.

Ideally the Bay would have been built closer to where Donald is, the Leg would be near the midtown bridge and the U of W right in the middle of it all. We would have a vibrant dense downtown if that were the case. Oh well.

[1ajs]

The issue got compounded by how the lybrals legalized weed and cerb scamming.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

The issue got compounded by how the lybrals legalized weed and cerb scamming.

Huh?

[Biff]

PP Ideas

[Biff]

And the completed vision for the final build out of what Portage Place should have looked like.