Canadian Skyline Thread III - Page 99

O-tacular · #**1961** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 3:01 PM**

From Skyrise cities credit Dubbs86:

https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/forum/...gle-crest-faas-architecture.37523/page-2

Wigs · #**1962** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I never liked Le 1000. It is too short to communicate much verticality, and it basically scans as being as tall as its "shoulders".

I think you should walk around the entire building inside and out to get a better appreciation for it next time you're in Montréal.

Maybe not being from Montreal, I see it with a different lens than locals. From certain angles it does indeed look chonky. But when the light hits it just right or from different viewpoints you can appreciate what the architects intended.

For me, the symmetry, seemingly aligned with the dome of Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral is

WhipperSnapper · #**1963** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeej

They are referring to any above ground level, not necessarily the designated ground floor. This came about due to Trump Tower Chicago, which has multiple above grade entrances. 214m is the correct height. The tower has above grade building entrances on 2 streets and there is a steep 9m gradient.

https://www.ctbuh.org/resource/height

Finished floor level at threshold of lowest entrance door

Storeys are measured from the designated ground floor, so there is no impact.

I'm aware of the gradient. I'm also aware that the address of the tower is 1000 de la Gauchetiere and not 997 Sainte-Antoine. Lastly, the entrances on Sainte-Antoine appears to be a loading dock and to the bus terminal and not the main entrance with lobby and main elevators banks which is CTBUH criteria as a main pedestrian entrance.

The height of building correlates with the number of above ground floors. If you're going to measure from SS1/ poking above ground than that does impact the number of above ground floors by adding 1 and reducing the number of basement floors.

If the Chicago home boys running CTBUH have made another exception to pad a local tower than so be it. Chicago is unique too. Ground exists on multiple planes. I'm for consistency and all the towers in Canada in Sthe database are measured from their main entrance on their main floor with only a handful, clearly marked exceptions (main floor and main entrance indeterminate) I would treat Wanda Tower differently as the whole neighbourhood exists on top of a 4 or 5 storey above ground parking garage. Including the above ground parking garage in the calculations when it functions as basement levels is disingenuous. Edmonton has a similar conundrum with towers built into the valley's slope.

kool maudit · #**1964** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 8:49 PM**

I'll take another look next time I am in town, but I just can't get past the sense that this is low-grade PoMo. I'd prefer Messeturm or Charlotte's BoA there, speaking of that era. The latter, coloured differently, might also interact with the Cathedral well.

Although Le1000 is nice in that regard, and that does count against my swipe at the "dated coloring", which works well given the copper and stone of Mary Queen of the World.

It could have been worse...

Nouvellecosse · #**1965** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 8:59 PM**

Personally I don't see Le 1000 as being "dated" any more than POMO office towers are dated in general since they're not commonly built anymore. I see it as being higher-grade and a bit more refined than many of its peers of that era that are common in places like Dallas. The colours would bother me if they were the dated POMO rose gold that was common in that era, but that was more in smaller buildings.

WhipperSnapper · #**1966** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 9:00 PM**

You're too harsh. 2121 Avenue of the Stars is cheap PoMo. Still, it's the star in the greatest Christmas movie of all time.

I don't like the design either. It's restrained standing at attention and too short and stubby for something that phallic. My guess it was designed with 260 plus metres in mind.

Wigs · #**1967** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I'll take another look next time I am in town, but I just can't get past the sense that this is low-grade PoMo. I'd prefer Messeturm or Charlotte's BoA there, speaking of that era. The latter, coloured differently, might also interact with the Cathedral well.

Although Le1000 is nice in that regard, and that does count against my swipe at the "dated coloring", which works well given the copper and stone of Mary Queen of the World.

It could have been worse...

That's interesting as I've always thought Messeturm was a European or German interpretation of an American skyscraper but misses the mark. The circular roof with the pyramid spire almost looks tacked on to my eyes. I think it would be a much nicer building without the pyramid topper

Nouvellecosse · #**1968** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigs

That's interesting as I've always thought Messeturm was a European or German interpretation of an American skyscraper but misses the mark. The circular roof with the pyramid spire almost looks tacked on to my eyes. I think it would be a much nicer building without the pyramid topper

The pyramid makes it look like it's wearing a dunce cap.

O-tacular · #**1969** Posted **Sep 12, 2024, 10:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I'll take another look next time I am in town, but I just can't get past the sense that this is low-grade PoMo. I'd prefer Messeturm or Charlotte's BoA there, speaking of that era. The latter, coloured differently, might also interact with the Cathedral well.

Although Le1000 is nice in that regard, and that does count against my swipe at the "dated coloring", which works well given the copper and stone of Mary Queen of the World.

It could have been worse...

How dare you slander ‘Le Batman’!!! I love that building. It’s gothic POMO.

Rico Rommheim · #**1970** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 12:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

How dare you slander ‘Le Batman’!!! I love that building. It’s gothic POMO.

Agreed. It's a classic. It's a fantastic tower. It's unique. I dare even say, it's underrated.

ssiguy · #**1971** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 12:55 AM**

Great shot of Calgary!

I love the Calgary skyline. For portions built after 1980, I think Calgary's blows Tor/Mon/Van completely out of the water. You can actually see the individual buildings with different architectural styles and colours while most of the Big 3 newer buildings are just blue/glass menageries that look like a blob with no distinction.

If it wasn't for the CN Tower and the sheer mass of Toronto's skyline, Calgary would be my favorite by a long shot.

cranes · #**1972** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 6:14 AM**

Waterloo

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/27143683/158-king-street-n-unit-1101-waterloo

905er · #**1973** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:11 PM**

Waterpoo more like it. What were they thinking over there?

Kitchener on the other hand I like.

Zeej · #**1974** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'm aware of the gradient. I'm also aware that the address of the tower is 1000 de la Gauchetiere and not 997 Sainte-Antoine. Lastly, the entrances on Sainte-Antoine appears to be a loading dock and to the bus terminal and not the main entrance with lobby and main elevators banks which is CTBUH criteria as a main pedestrian entrance.

Yes, the address is on La Gauchetière, but the point of this is that the CTBUH criteria allows for the height to be taken from any pedestrian entrance, not just the main entrance with the lobby etc.

In the case of Le 1000, there are 2 pedestrian entrances on Sainte-Antoine, in addition to a small gym and the Megabus terminal.

Zeej · #**1975** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

You're too harsh. 2121 Avenue of the Stars is cheap PoMo. Still, it's the star in the greatest Christmas movie of all time.

I don't like the design either. It's restrained standing at attention and too short and stubby for something that phallic. My guess it was designed with 260 plus metres in mind.

I find the elevations of Le 1000 to be a bit awkward - it's best appreciated in perspective or from an oblique view. Its height and details are communicated best.

Agreed that it was probably conceived as being taller than it is. I think its proportions would be optimal at 230-240m.

Acajack · #**1976** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

You're too harsh. 2121 Avenue of the Stars is cheap PoMo. Still, it's the star in the greatest Christmas movie of all time.

I don't like the design either. It's restrained standing at attention and too short and stubby for something that phallic. My guess it was designed with 260 plus metres in mind.

Though you have to admit it takes balls to build a phallic office tower with a urethra running right up the middle of it!

Nouvellecosse · #**1977** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:55 PM**

Yeah the proportions would benefit from more height.

Zeej · #**1978** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 1:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though you have to admit it takes balls to build a phallic office tower with a urethra running right up the middle of it!

You can thank the church, specifically its building across the street, for those balls. Inspirational and ironic.

hipster duck · #**1979** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 2:14 PM**

In my opinion, Scotia Plaza in Toronto is the only Canadian PoMo tower to get us into not the top tier, but the next tier below among great PoMo skycrapers.

I do think Montreal's height limit really cut any of their buildings out of contention because the sculpting and tapering that PoMo demands - and at such a magnified scale - really cuts into the revenue-generating floorspace available at higher floors.

The most memorable PoMo skyscrapers are all spires, and they're all over Montreal's height limit: Messeturn, 1 Liberty Place, BoA in Charlotte, RepublicBank (now TC Energy) in Houston. Unless you have very skinny floorplates - like some Manhattan prewar towers and IM Pei's Four Seasons hotel in Midtown - a spire under 200 meters looks ridiculous.

Canada's only real spire is Brookfield place. It's kind of a B- skyscraper, if you ask me. Scotia Plaza isn't a Spire, but it has a memorable, narrow profile that it can get away with because it was a statement HQ from a bank and it's tall.

Zeej · #**1980** Posted **Sep 13, 2024, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In my opinion, Scotia Plaza in Toronto is the only Canadian PoMo tower to get us into not the top tier, but the next tier below among great PoMo skycrapers.

I do think Montreal's height limit really cut any of their buildings out of contention because the sculpting and tapering that PoMo demands - and at such a magnified scale - really cuts into the revenue-generating floorspace available at higher floors.

The most memorable PoMo skyscrapers are all spires, and they're all over Montreal's height limit: Messeturn, 1 Liberty Place, BoA in Charlotte, RepublicBank (now TC Energy) in Houston. Unless you have very skinny floorplates - like some Manhattan prewar towers and IM Pei's Four Seasons hotel in Midtown - a spire under 200 meters looks ridiculous.

Canada's only real spire is Brookfield place. It's kind of a B- skyscraper, if you ask me. Scotia Plaza isn't a Spire, but it has a memorable, narrow profile that it can get away with because it was a statement HQ from a bank and it's tall.

I'm not sure I agree in full, but I really appreciate this analysis. I agree that more height generally lends itself well to the POMO style (BOA Charlotte, Key Bank Tower Cleveland and US Bank Tower Los Angeles are my personal favourites) but I think there are exceptions.

I'd put up the Bankers' Hall towers (197m) in Calgary for consideration.