Downtown Update

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Exactly what would you expect them to do, their hands are tied. We can't just lock people up for being homeless or having mental health problems, the Charter of Rights won't allow it. If they are breaking criminal laws and violent by all means put them in jail. But no court is going to sanction imprisoning people for homelessness or mental health issues.

Unfortunately people like you would oppose doing the right thing and giving them a basic income and the ability to live with dignity. Give them 25k per year and the ability to access public housing and the programs needed to get them on their feet and many of these problems would go away. Instead people like you want to lock them up to the tune of 120 k per year which makes no sense at all financially.

lmao wow. All I can say is wow. You think giving drug addicts 25k a year is going to help them? They'll just buy more drugs. People like you just don't understand the problem properly - Blissfully ignorant. These are hardcore drug addicts. They need help in the form of forced treatment, nothing else. No one is suggesting locking them up. But forcing them into rehabilitation, yes. It's called involuntary admission, and it is a thing whether you want to admit it or not.

I suggest you read up on the Mental Health Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. M.7, which explicitly states that people who are not in their mental right mind can be forced to admit to a treatment facility, without being released until such a time that a physician determines that they are well enough. It's called a Form 3 (Ontario - Involuntary Admission).

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Apparently a vagrant was roaming around last night on James Street North with a machete threatening people with it. Police had to go bar to bar warning people to take shelter. This is the state of downtown Hamilton in 2024.

What is it going to take for our government to take action with these homeless encampments?

Give them their addresses and tell them to encamp on or near their property - watch things change.

These people only care when they are PERSONALLY affected.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Give them their addresses and tell them to encamp on or near their property - watch things change.

These people only care when they are PERSONALLY affected.

yep.

People also seriously need to realize this is not a housing/income issue. It's a drug and mental health issue. No amount of housing and well wishes will save these people. They need intervention.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

yep.

People also seriously need to realize this is not a housing/income issue. It's a drug and mental health issue. No amount of housing and well wishes will save these people. They need intervention.

It's actually deeper than that - it's a society issue - in that people have swung in the polar opposite direction of "beat people into submission" - now its destroy everything as long as you can make a person feel good and validated - this is happening in all countries right now - that everyone deserves equality and equity, even if they don't deserve it or haven't earned it.

It's the give everyone a participation trophy mentality - they have societally conditioned a whole generation to need to feel good and validated all the time, and when life smacks them in the face they turn to substances to try to feel better all the time - it's like "brave new world" - feelings have become more important to society than anything else -it's max feel goodness with minimal effort

everyone wants to feel good - drugs

noone wants to work for anything - encampments

this is a direct symptom of the poisonous practices we have instilled in the past few decades on these generations of people. And now we are seeing its fruition.

If we want to see this go away it is going to take decades of corrective indoctrination of future generations - we've essentially ruined entire generations of people. This is why cancel culture is a thing - hurt feelings? Take the person down. We've even seen it on this forum - disagree with someone's world view? Take them down - make fun of them - call them scum, etc. All because they've been told they are special and right and that everything is a social justice crusade. They believe they are right so they can be as awful as they want to be to others. The ends justify the means.

And now? You are feeling it - the tidal wave of people just fed up with all of this, and that is the tip of the iceberg of things starting to swing back the other way. It's all it ever is is a pendulum swing back and forth - some things are done right with each swing and others are purely destructive.

We have people who are just broken, and at the same time entitled.

[Hamil60]

Can we please get back to talking about building projects or start a new thread for homeless and encampments?

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Hamil60

Can we please get back to talking about building projects or start a new thread for homeless and encampments?

Have you been to downtown Hamilton lately? The downtown is falling apart. Why should we ignore it. The issue should be front and centre. This is very ON topic.

[Hamil60]

Then maybe rename this the broken record thread, not much new added but alot repeated.

I walk the core every day and it's not falling apart it's in a renewal process that will make it much nicer in the coming years as they work the problems out.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Hamil60

Then maybe rename this the broken record thread, not much new added but alot repeated.

I walk the core every day and it's not falling apart it's in a renewal process that will make it much nicer in the coming years as they work the problems out.

we'll never work the problems out unless we bring awareness to how bad it has become. Brushing it under the rug just isn't working...

[rdaner]

Originally Posted by Hamil60

Can we please get back to talking about building projects or start a new thread for homeless and encampments?

I would go to UrbanToronto as their threads are monitored and usually don’t go off topic.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I would go to UrbanToronto as their threads are monitored and usually don’t go off topic.

There's also this thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...=253718&page=4

[Innsertnamehere]

Hamiltons' Development mapping website is finally working again post-cyber attack, so we can look up new applications again:

https://www.hamilton.ca/build-invest...ening-hamilton

May and June permit data is also out. The summary reports continue to not be issued, but a total of $340m in permits were issued in the two months. Large permit values in May and June include:

May:
- 412 Barton St E - Apartments $4.5m
- 213 King St W - Apartments $80m
- 1620 Main St E - Apartments $15n
- 101 York Blvd - Arenas $4.5m (this is for Copps Coliseum reno)
- 863 Nebo Rd - Factory Alteration $7m (new Atlantic Packaging Facility)
- 51 Swayze Rd - Self Storage $10.5m
- 34 Crooks St - Detached Dwelling $2.5m (interestingly large permit for a detached home in the downtown)
- 14 Newton Ave - Detached Dwelling $2.9m (another interesting one, this is a "laneway home" in Westdale by the looks of it)
- 137 Fallingbrook Dr - Detached Dwelling $3.3m
- 26 Mountianview Rd - Detached Dwelling $3.2m
- 10 Aeropark Blvd - Warehouse Modification $3.6m

June:
- 95 Strathearne Pl - Detached Dwelling $3.0m
- 66 Lodor Ln - Detached Dwelling $2.6m
- 17 DaVinci Blvd - Detached Dwelling $2.0m
- 128 Eleanor Ave - Detached Dwelling $2.8m
- 1915 Concession 4 Rd - Detached Dwelling $2.2m
- 150 St Margarets Rd - Detached Dwelling $3.5m
- 495 Scenic Dr - Detached Dwelling $2.9m
- 863 Nebo Rd - Factory Alteration $2m
- 20 Duke St - Apartment Alteration $2m
- 50 Aeropark Blvd - Warehouse Alteration $3m
- 230 Lansing Dr - Warehouse $2.5m
- 1055 Industrial Dr - Factory Alteration $4.4m

I will also note that June had a *very* large number of detached dwelling permits issued. A total of $155m in permits were issued in June, most of which were in the $400-$700k range for individual detached dwellings.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

There's also this thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...=253718&page=4

can't force a location for conversation, it's just going to happen organically wherever it does. In this case, the downtown update thread is probably the best place for a downtown drug addiction crisis conversation

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

can't force a location for conversation, it's just going to happen organically wherever it does. In this case, the downtown update thread is probably the best place for a downtown drug addiction crisis conversation

What's happening is a serious existential threat to downtown Hamilton, and it is going to impair growth from here. Some people do get tired of talking about it, and I get that. What I don't get is when people try to deny that it is a problem and try to either say that it does not really exist or that it is just a part of the urban experience and that all is in order.

From what I understand, there is a perception in Hamilton that it is very bad downtown. And I believe that there is a matching reality that it is indeed very bad downtown. If it stays very bad, then you will stop seeing shovels in the ground and you will stop seeing new businesses opening. Instead, you will see businesses closing and a "doom loop" forming and then we will have nothing to talk about on these forums.

[Allroadsleadtoham]

Originally Posted by BCTed

What's happening is a serious existential threat to downtown Hamilton, and it is going to impair growth from here. Some people do get tired of talking about it, and I get that. What I don't get is when people try to deny that it is a problem and try to either say that it does not really exist or that it is just a part of the urban experience and that all is in order.

From what I understand, there is a perception in Hamilton that it is very bad downtown. And I believe that there is a matching reality that it is indeed very bad downtown. If it stays very bad, then you will stop seeing shovels in the ground and you will stop seeing new businesses opening. Instead, you will see businesses closing and a "doom loop" forming and then we will have nothing to talk about on these forums.

I don't want to jinx it but the core day/night walkers aren't lingering as much Also, some new businesses opening up on King downtown Core. All very positive on the lunch walk today

[Hamil60]

I do agree that the encampment situation is out of control but do not agree with those who say. the dt core is a disaster.

How many if those posting here have spent much time in the core in the last year? Many new businesses have and are continuing to open, restaurants have always been a hard business to keep going but there are many new ones.

When I first moved to hamilton 20 years ago it was certainly more run down then it is today and I have spent time almost daily over those 20 walking and eating in the core area.

I am beginning to think that most of the negatives recently are more rumor passing. Go and find out for yourself what it's like.

Yes the need is to address homelessness and drug usage but the dt core is far from being a perceived lost cause.

That's it for me, I'll read but won't submit on this topic again.

[TheRitsman]

Peeps see a couple homeless people and call the downtown Detroit. Total joke. Business closes and a new one fill it's place within months or even days sometimes. Downtown is jammed with people. Expensive restaurants are filled up even on a Monday (like Le Tambour last night).

Peeps just want to hate on Hamilton. I'm not so pessimistic. The worst part is 40 and 50 years olds who have lived through Hamilton's bad years and seen it slump and recover forget what Hamilton was like 15 years ago.

It's getting tiring to defend the place, but the insane economic activity will speak for itself in 5 years.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Hamil60

I do agree that the encampment situation is out of control but do not agree with those who say. the dt core is a disaster.

How many if those posting here have spent much time in the core in the last year? Many new businesses have and are continuing to open, restaurants have always been a hard business to keep going but there are many new ones.

When I first moved to hamilton 20 years ago it was certainly more run down then it is today and I have spent time almost daily over those 20 walking and eating in the core area.

I am beginning to think that most of the negatives recently are more rumor passing. Go and find out for yourself what it's like.

Yes the need is to address homelessness and drug usage but the dt core is far from being a perceived lost cause.

That's it for me, I'll read but won't submit on this topic again.

Hmmm.

I have been a full-time or part-time Hamiltonian for much longer than 20 years. I remember that downtown previously had a bunch of mobility scooter people and the odd homeless person, which was bearable enough. But I have been shocked by many of my visits over the past year or so:

• I have picked up people at the Hamilton GO Centre --- it is often mostly homeless people in there. The washrooms have black lights (at least the men's one does) to make drug use more difficult, but it has still led to absurdly limited hours --- something like only daytime hours on weekdays. I recently saw an unconscious person sprawled out on the stairs that lead from the outdoor HSR waiting area to the Augusta area, causing everyone else to have to take the other half of the stairs.
  
• The Y near the GO station is not good news.
  
• The West Harbour station has similar problems to the GO Centre, especially by the elevators.
  
• I have tried to do work at the Central Library at times. The entrance from Jackson Square sometimes smells like pee and the security guards are kept busy with disruptive people.
  
• I have almost gagged by the smell of pee inside Jackson Square near the Country Style Donuts. [I get that this is not necessarily an everyday thing, but I bet it is also far from being a one-off]. The food court in the mall is full of sketchy characters.
  
• I was recently eating dinner with an out-of-town friend at a restaurant on King Street when a homeless person came in and started eating leftover food from a table at which diners had just left. The poor guy was hungry, but talk about losing your appetite.
  
• The Salvation Army Booth Centre on York has tons of tweaked-out people in front of it. Before part of the south side of York was closed off for FirstOntario Centre construction, there were sometimes lines of junkies stretching from Bay Street to the library or the farmer's market.
  
• There is a guy who spends his days sitting on a massive pile of garbage on York in front of the old Sir John A. Macdonald high school
  
• The convention centre / Fairclough building often has junkies/vagrants in front of it.
  
• It may have recently been cleared up, but there was a big encampment in front of the funeral home at King and Victoria for the longest time. Who would ever use that funeral home's services?
  
• I no longer go to the Tim Hortons at Cannon and Bay because of the crowd there. And the washrooms can be pretty disgusting.
  
• Bayfront Park (whether considered downtown or not) used to be my favourite place in Hamilton to walk. It now has plenty of tents on the downslope from the street to the park.
  
• Unprompted, the guy who runs one of the pizza places told me that he has to deal with problems on the regular.
  
• The back of City Hall / Whitehern area is bad news.
  
• I just recently realized that there are tents on both sides of the bottom of the Claremont Access.
  
• Not really the fault of the homeless/junkies, but it is also sad to see the City Centre fall into worse and worse shape. Unlike many people on here, I really appreciated that building.
  
• All kinds of other one-offs are out there. Bus shelters are no longer clean places to sit. A common sight is people trying to get scraps out of garbage cans. Once in a while, people are just shouting for no reason. There have been a number of recent daytime shootings. The downtown tax court just closed because of safety concerns.
  

This covers most of the downtown.

I know that I could come up with a number of additional examples if I gave it some more thought. I am also very forgiving of Hamilton's grit and am very much cheering the city on (It was looking much better for several years prior to COVID), and it is not quite a lost cause, but I simply do not see the argument that the troubles are just rumours or misperception. If this is my impression, then you can bet that people who are less forgiving have a much harsher one --- and I can't blame them.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Peeps see a couple homeless people and call the downtown Detroit. Total joke. Business closes and a new one fill it's place within months or even days sometimes. Downtown is jammed with people. Expensive restaurants are filled up even on a Monday (like Le Tambour last night).

Peeps just want to hate on Hamilton. I'm not so pessimistic. The worst part is 40 and 50 years olds who have lived through Hamilton's bad years and seen it slump and recover forget what Hamilton was like 15 years ago.

It's getting tiring to defend the place, but the insane economic activity will speak for itself in 5 years.

A couple? Have you been near the YWCA or GO Station. Literally hundreds roaming around that area high on drugs or in a psychotic state. Pretending the problem isn't there won't solve anything.

[urban_planner]

Hamilton biggest problem and it has been forever isn't the street people. It's the everyone shits all over downtown and for whatever reason thinks this homelessness problem is strictly a Hamilton issue. Get over it. It's like this everywhere. I'm not living in a town with 1000 people and guess what we have a homeless guy living under a bridge. Norfork County OPP is daily getting calls in Simcoe for homeless people putting up tents where ever they feel like it.

Don't go to the east part of Downtown London. It's much worse than what I've seen Downtown Hamilton.

I'm so sick of hearing it. Get over it, it's never going away.

I really don't understand why Hamiltonians obsess over it and obsesse over being so negative.

[rdaner]

My experience of central Hamilton has been really good as a visitor every 3 months. Now I will say that I frequent James North and don’t really have a reason to hang out by the
Y. Lots of activity and will improve as buildings occupy. But the biggest thing is the announcement today about injection sites! This is great news for all of Ontario!