[Saint John] Port Development

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

So to confirm, taller than the newest cranes? Will Gemini bring in more ship visits, or just increased cargo volumes on current ships? Will Gemini take us to 250,000 + teu’s?

The 4 current cranes are actually all the same height. The two newer ones at new berth can reach further than other two and are 100 feet wide, where the older two at south end are 50 feet wide. The Gemini will likely have another service to Saint John, perhaps two. Other lines may change, increase or decrease in cargo, but the Gemini will be the lead horse if all goes well with the Alliance between Maersk and Hapag.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The 4 current cranes are actually all the same height. The two newer ones at new berth can reach further than other two and are 100 feet wide, where the older two at south end are 50 feet wide. The Gemini will likely have another service to Saint John, perhaps two. Other lines may change, increase or decrease in cargo, but the Gemini will be the lead horse if all goes well with the Alliance between Maersk and Hapag.

This may be relevant - a CSX geometry train is going to be scanning NBSR tracks all the way to Saint John this week. Don't know exactly what day.

[FromMaine]

This sounds like a mad dash to accomodate new services, fortunately DP World is a significant player and can make it happen quickly!

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The 4 current cranes are actually all the same height. The two newer ones at new berth can reach further than other two and are 100 feet wide, where the older two at south end are 50 feet wide. The Gemini will likely have another service to Saint John, perhaps two. Other lines may change, increase or decrease in cargo, but the Gemini will be the lead horse if all goes well with the Alliance between Maersk and Hapag.

So would the two with the shorter reach be replaced or would they eventually move to a total of 6 cranes?

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by sailor734

So would the two with the shorter reach be replaced or would they eventually move to a total of 6 cranes?

I hope for 6 and then the smaller ones being replaced later!

[PSJ harbour]

The cranes at the older dock are big enough for that dock. The max draft there is 12.2m at low water so there will never be ships too big for those cranes at the southern dock ‘older dock’.

Unless more bollards and bigger tugs come, the port will likely not see the Colombo class container ships that were anticipated. At 295m, the NYK ships that call Saint John basically max out the dock length wise. You may be able to get a 303m ship there as well.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The cranes at the older dock are big enough for that dock. The max draft there is 12.2m at low water so there will never be ships too big for those cranes at the southern dock ‘older dock’.

Unless more bollards and bigger tugs come, the port will likely not see the Colombo class container ships that were anticipated. At 295m, the NYK ships that call Saint John basically max out the dock length wise. You may be able to get a 303m ship there as well.

OK So, I'm a little confused. Will there ever be a use for 6 cranes or are 4 enough to handle the ships that can fit alongside the docks as they are?

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

OK So, I'm a little confused. Will there ever be a use for 6 cranes or are 4 enough to handle the ships that can fit alongside the docks as they are?

You can work 5 cranes on the NYK ships at 295 if you wanted. So yes, 6 cranes can work at once, 4 on one and 2 on the other ship

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

You can work 5 cranes on the NYK ships at 295 if you wanted. So yes, 6 cranes can work at once, 4 on one and 2 on the other ship

Interesting. So it's more about offload/load speed and turnaround time for the ship? Is there a standard that the shipping lines are looking for......(X containers/hour) that makes a port more liable to attract business?

[FromMaine]

Having not been to the port since last year I am a bit curious more or less about surface loaders that will allow them to more efficiently load and unload trains, as well as stack higher in the yard. Anything on that side planned?

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

Having not been to the port since last year I am a bit curious more or less about surface loaders that will allow them to more efficiently load and unload trains, as well as stack higher in the yard. Anything on that side planned?

I don't have any hard information on that, but it was mentioned by DP World that they would be acquiring the necessary overhead gantry cranes and straddle carriers, etc when they got to 6-7 cranes and 800K TEU. It looks like they are making a serious run at that now so I fully expect they are going to be acquiring that asap. That is where at least some of the added manpower will be needed.

Here's a comment that gives a bit of insight in DP World's timetable:

https://youtu.be/cN7gE4Uc3Qw?si=nLr2odC1ADNRrlgq&t=2387

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

OK So, I'm a little confused. Will there ever be a use for 6 cranes or are 4 enough to handle the ships that can fit alongside the docks as they are?

The goal is to get the 400m ships to Saint John. The new wharf can handle 360’s, but it’s turning them in the harbour that makes it so challenging. The big cruise ships make it look easy with 70,000HP bow and stern thrusters. The 400m ships would have 4 6000HP tugs on them working full power to turn the ship in the harbour. Very little room for error and it has never been done. The 295’s seem challenging enough with 11m drafts. Imagine 400m with 15m draft… would be a slug to turn. The only way to see 360’s or bigger would be to expand south in my opinion. Knock out pier 13, 14 and build a new wharf out of caissons that stretches from corner of pier 10 towards the digby ferry. You don’t have to worry about turning the ships in the harbour by doing this. Who am I to say though!

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The goal is to get the 400m ships to Saint John. The new wharf can handle 360’s, but it’s turning them in the harbour that makes it so challenging. The big cruise ships make it look easy with 70,000HP bow and stern thrusters. The 400m ships would have 4 6000HP tugs on them working full power to turn the ship in the harbour. Very little room for error and it has never been done. The 295’s seem challenging enough with 11m drafts. Imagine 400m with 15m draft… would be a slug to turn. The only way to see 360’s or bigger would be to expand south in my opinion. Knock out pier 13, 14 and build a new wharf out of caissons that stretches from corner of pier 10 towards the digby ferry. You don’t have to worry about turning the ships in the harbour by doing this. Who am I to say though!

Like so? https://imgur.com/a/lzpIDKl

Would the AIM site make for easier turning without having to build a whole new pier? I'm nautically illiterate.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The goal is to get the 400m ships to Saint John. The new wharf can handle 360’s, but it’s turning them in the harbour that makes it so challenging. The big cruise ships make it look easy with 70,000HP bow and stern thrusters. The 400m ships would have 4 6000HP tugs on them working full power to turn the ship in the harbour. Very little room for error and it has never been done. The 295’s seem challenging enough with 11m drafts. Imagine 400m with 15m draft… would be a slug to turn. The only way to see 360’s or bigger would be to expand south in my opinion. Knock out pier 13, 14 and build a new wharf out of caissons that stretches from corner of pier 10 towards the digby ferry. You don’t have to worry about turning the ships in the harbour by doing this. Who am I to say though!

I did a quick outline from your description just to see if I got the right idea. This is 500 meters long with 25.6 acres of space within the outline. It probably depends on waterflows and what the seafloor looks like. It solves the problem of what to do with piers 13/14. And it looks like there would be no problem turning 400m ships right there, assuming the proper clearances under water.

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I did a quick outline from your description just to see if I got the right idea. This is 500 meters long with 25.6 acres of space within the outline. It probably depends on waterflows and what the seafloor looks like. It solves the problem of what to do with piers 13/14. And it looks like there would be no problem turning 400m ships right there, assuming the proper clearances under water.

Yes, that looks decent. I was also thinking if the ferry moved you could put the new wharf on the same angle as the shoreline at the beach. Maybe out a few hundred meters from shore line. When coming up the harbour I can picture a 400m ship there with 6 cranes boomed down on heart working! Lots of room for containers where current parking lot it as well.

My initial idea of the new dock was to eliminate and remove pier 2, and 3. You would still have a slip, as you would have pier 1, pier 4 ‘Rodney slip’ and a huge bull head from pier 1 to Rodney slip. Would not gain the land though that they have filled in though is all. Dredge Rodney slip down, as the berth would be long enough for the 400m ships.

[adamuptownsj]

If moving the ferry is in question, where does it go? Tin Can Beach would be a great fit, but do you realistically see it going anywhere? This would cost a lot of money for something the feds don't see as very essential as-is (see their threats to fork the boat over to the Magdalen Islands earlier this year). I know we're just talking hypotheticals, of course.

Also, could you provide something that indicated which of the numbered piers is which?

[MonctonianSentinel01]

How are they coming along with filling in the slips? When I go to the Port Saint John website, the modernize, operations and infrastructure upgrades section all say "page not found". On the Port Map page though it doesn't show them anymore, so I am assuming that they have been completely filled? I have yet to find a good and up to date aerial photo or video of the port showing if this part of the project has been completed.

[FromMaine]

The Bahri Jeddah, a roro ship, is scheduled for mid September in Saint John. I suspect this will be a shipment of vehicles headed to Europe (next Stop Genoa) or Middle East (Alexandria)

https://www.ghanemforwarding.com/Fil...1-637cdd05cf1a

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

How are they coming along with filling in the slips? When I go to the Port Saint John website, the modernize, operations and infrastructure upgrades section all say "page not found". On the Port Map page though it doesn't show them anymore, so I am assuming that they have been completely filled? I have yet to find a good and up to date aerial photo or video of the port showing if this part of the project has been completed.

This was a video shot back in June. You can see the slips have pretty much been filled in, but there is still a thick and heavy layer of rock(?) on top of the smaller former slips. They left that type of cover on the north Rodney berth for approx. a year. I think it's to compress the pad so that it can hold heavier loads. This guy does a video like this every few months - he usually does railroad vids.

So while you might hear that it's "done", it is still a construction project. It is necessary work that is actually getting done.

https://youtu.be/S-RU_pYANLE?si=NvODTLsF7SRygMXB

[FromMaine]

So rail strike looks like full steam ahead... hopefully short lived but no comments from PSJ I've seen. Anyone else?