HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #10741  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 2:33 PM
Hecate's Avatar
Hecate Hecate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,646
People were defending their right to earn a living and feed their families. They were scared? And they didn’t do even half the damage the left did.

What’s the lefts excuse? Rage based on a lie, led to one of the largest terrorist acts on Canadian soil, over 70 churches burned and vandalized.

BuT bUT The cOnvoY
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10742  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 2:34 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecate View Post
They came ready for it, but didn’t follow through unlike… the lefty hamas supporters and “Decolonizers”
Are you so perpetually online that your brain is permanently wired only to see gotchya arguments?

Touch grass dude.

Nobody said anybody else's violence is excusable.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10743  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 2:37 PM
Hecate's Avatar
Hecate Hecate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,646
We have actually terrorist supporters attacking synagogues and openly chanting antisemitic bullshit in Jewish neighborhoods, at Jewish schools, at universities. The fucking Ontario public employees union has thrown its Jewish members under the bus.

Why the fuck is a government employees union even commenting on this?

BuT tHE cOnVoy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10744  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 2:41 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Around 2008-2012, Canada had a "little golden period", where we escaped the worst ravages of the GFC that absolutely wrecked the US and Europe. In that context, I think "little growth" was a huge win. I was highly critical of Harper's environmental record but, in hindsight, that was probably a "first world problem" at a time when we had fewer things to worry about (relatively speaking).

In 2014, the New York Times wrote an article called "Life in Canada, Home of the World's Most Affluent Middle Class". If I saw an article with that title today, I'd think it was written in The Onion.
Even back when that article was written, Canada was well on its way to becoming the sick man of the G7. In the 2011-2013 period, Canada consistently ranked near Italy and Spain in terms of labour productivity. Worse still, this was during the period of peak oil prices prior to the global declines in late 2014 as OPEC tried to squash shale producers in their infancy. Worsening competitiveness for Canadian oil, a hyper focus on domestic and international real estate investment, and a lack of corporate innovation have all led us from a position of teetering on the edge to straight up face planting off the side of the podium.

Above average levels of home ownership, political stability, and relatively lax restrictions on capital flows was a recipe for a nice shot in the arm for the middle class at a time when the global economy was unstable. However it's akin to a pistol with one bullet in the chamber in that you only really get to use it once. You can't keep firing that gun for each subsequent generation who never has chance to enter the market

The Anglosphere has always had a cultural tendency towards home ownership, which is a large reason why for example, the middle class in the UK has historically been wealthier (at least on paper) than Germany, even though the latter has undoubtedly been the stronger, more diverse economy over the last 20 years. Germans are on average more productive, earn more, export significantly more per capita, etc. yet the average UK citizen is reportedly up to 50% wealthier than their German counterpart. the UK middle class dominates European tourism, secondary home ownership in Spain, Portugal, etc. You could probably argue that although the per capita metrics for Germany are superior in most areas, the UK has a lot of high earning labour due to London's position as a global financial centre. However there's no doubt that the middle class also benefits from a propensity to invest in the most easily leveraged asset class in the world.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10745  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 4:07 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Even back when that article was written, Canada was well on its way to becoming the sick man of the G7. In the 2011-2013 period, Canada consistently ranked near Italy and Spain in terms of labour productivity. Worse still, this was during the period of peak oil prices prior to the global declines in late 2014 as OPEC tried to squash shale producers in their infancy. Worsening competitiveness for Canadian oil, a hyper focus on domestic and international real estate investment, and a lack of corporate innovation have all led us from a position of teetering on the edge to straight up face planting off the side of the podium.

Above average levels of home ownership, political stability, and relatively lax restrictions on capital flows was a recipe for a nice shot in the arm for the middle class at a time when the global economy was unstable. However it's akin to a pistol with one bullet in the chamber in that you only really get to use it once. You can't keep firing that gun for each subsequent generation who never has chance to enter the market

The Anglosphere has always had a cultural tendency towards home ownership, which is a large reason why for example, the middle class in the UK has historically been wealthier (at least on paper) than Germany, even though the latter has undoubtedly been the stronger, more diverse economy over the last 20 years. Germans are on average more productive, earn more, export significantly more per capita, etc. yet the average UK citizen is reportedly up to 50% wealthier than their German counterpart. the UK middle class dominates European tourism, secondary home ownership in Spain, Portugal, etc. You could probably argue that although the per capita metrics for Germany are superior in most areas, the UK has a lot of high earning labour due to London's position as a global financial centre. However there's no doubt that the middle class also benefits from a propensity to invest in the most easily leveraged asset class in the world.
Germany aside (I don't envy their position right now, and a lot of things that made Germany such an economic powerhouse have been completely squandered), I generally agree with you.

In my lifetime, Canada has always had a very shaky economic footing. When it comes to exports, we oscillate between natural resource extraction at a high dollar, or just having the fortune of being supply chain-integrated with the American midwest and being able to perform the same work as someone in Ohio or Indiana for 25% less. Under Harper we were leaning toward the former, and under Trudeau, we've invested heavily in trying to maintain a foothold in the latter. They both come with huge downsides.

We've always been terrible at innovation. This was as true in 2010 or 1985 as it is now. I remember reading Jane Jacobs' "Cities and the Wealth of Nations" (1984) where she called Canada a "minor economic basket case" and put it on the same level as Ireland. I also read a 2006 OECD report on Toronto, which basically concluded that we were a middling global city that multinational corporations used to do low end, back office work. This role, they continued, applied to the country as a whole.

I don't know how we get out of our low productivity malaise, but I don't put all the blame on the governments we elect. At the end of the day, if our oligarch duopoly companies choose to spend their money on dividends for their shareholders rather than R&D to improve productivity, there's not much governments can do.

Some of it is also not our fault. If, by some miracle, we managed to create a real innovator in a strategically important technology - something like TSMC for Taiwan or ASML for the Netherlands, the Americans would find a way to snuff it out or buy us out and take our IP. Despite all the money the Canadian and Quebec governments could invest, we saw what happened with the C-series and BBD. Innovative companies in smaller European countries have the benefit of EU protection which we don't have.

Anyway, TL/DR: I wish Canada was more dynamic and that we didn't rely on precarious economic models to fuel our growth. We seem to replace one bad idea with another - we went from branch plants making the exact same toothpaste as the plant across the border in the 1980s, to low end call centres in the 90s and 00s to the real estate ponzi scheme of today. But I wouldn't place all the blame with whatever Federal government was in charge at the time.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10746  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 4:22 PM
Hecate's Avatar
Hecate Hecate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,646
How long until this is Canada? Lol

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/05/u...ainer-gbr-intl
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10747  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 4:57 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 22,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Exactly. They came ready to commit terrorism. We were lucky the cops disarmed them before it really got bad. The apologism for these insurrectionists is gross. All from those who would normally be complaining about law and order too. Some of you are telling on yourselves. Apparently, hooliganism and terrorism is acceptable when you share political views.
Yep these same people are calling for blood if first nations or environmental protestors block a train or road for 24 hours.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10748  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:01 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Around 2008-2012, Canada had a "little golden period", where we escaped the worst ravages of the GFC that absolutely wrecked the US and Europe. In that context, I think "little growth" was a huge win. I was highly critical of Harper's environmental record but, in hindsight, that was probably a "first world problem" at a time when we had fewer things to worry about (relatively speaking).

In 2014, the New York Times wrote an article called "Life in Canada, Home of the World's Most Affluent Middle Class". If I saw an article with that title today, I'd think it was written in The Onion.
I remember that article - wow.

Yea - the Harper Era economically was the golden era for Canada, especially out west. The Alberta economy was just on fire back then.

Other parts of the country like SW Ontario were in rougher shape though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10749  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:12 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 22,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecate View Post
Hateful online rhetoric like yours leads to real life violence like this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10750  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:14 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Yep these same people are calling for blood if first nations or environmental protestors block a train or road for 24 hours.
What are you talking about. Showing up with weapons was the extent of the "violence" from the Convo. Minus some minor assault as they were forcibly cleared out. Charge that sure as they should leave when told to lawfully by police. But the claims of some insurection are ridiculous.

meanwhile it's all alleged according to CBC when the righteous protestors totally destroy buildings:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ting-1.6356257
First Nations and environmental protestors

This guy attacked a couple sleeping with a 6 year old:
https://bismarcktribune.com/news/loc...69d957d93.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10751  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:17 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post

Anyway, TL/DR: I wish Canada was more dynamic and that we didn't rely on precarious economic models to fuel our growth. We seem to replace one bad idea with another - we went from branch plants making the exact same toothpaste as the plant across the border in the 1980s, to low end call centres in the 90s and 00s to the real estate ponzi scheme of today. But I wouldn't place all the blame with whatever Federal government was in charge at the time.
I agree and my whole point was more that Canada has been off course for a long time, and that the current government is far from the sole source of our problems. Trudeau didn't give us our drug habit, he's just that one friend who convinces you to take one more hit when you've already been up for 24 hours. The reality is that Canadians have always been a more conservative group than our neighbours to the south. This goes back centuries to when the English and Scottish merchant class in Montreal were content to grow wealthy on trade with the British Empire and act as a conduit to the burgeoning American colossus. Periodically, there would be external events like World War 1 and 2 which would force us to take drastic action and drag ourselves forward, but there is very little economic proactiveness in our history. There isn't any easy solution, however I think it's fairly obvious that continuing to rely on on primary residences as the sole vehicle to maintain Canadians' expected level of wealth is not sustainable.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994

Last edited by suburbanite; Aug 6, 2024 at 5:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10752  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:27 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I agree and my whole point was more that Canada has been off course for a long time, and that the current government is far from the sole source of our problems. Trudeau didn't give us our drug habit, he's just that one friend who convinces you to take one more hit when you've already been up for 24 hours. The reality is that Canadians have always been a more conservative group than our neighbours to the south. This goes back centuries to when the British and Scottish merchant class in Montreal were content to grow wealthy on trade with the British Empire and act as a conduit to the burgeoning American colossus. Periodically, there would be external events like World War 1 and 2 which would force us to take drastic action and drag ourselves forward, but there is very little economic proactiveness in our history. There isn't any easy solution, however I think it's fairly obvious that continuing to rely on on primary residences as the sole vehicle to maintain Canadians' expected level of wealth is not sustainable.
Brain Drain I think is a big part of this. Most people who are ambitious and want to push boundaries just move south as it's much easier to do it there (and you get rewarded more handsomely).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10753  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:29 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I agree and my whole point was more that Canada has been off course for a long time, and that the current government is far from the sole source of our problems. Trudeau didn't give us our drug habit, he's just that one friend who convinces you to take one more hit when you've already been up for 24 hours. The reality is that Canadians have always been a more conservative group than our neighbours to the south. This goes back centuries to when the British and Scottish merchant class in Montreal were content to grow wealthy on trade with the British Empire and act as a conduit to the burgeoning American colossus. Periodically, there would be external events like World War 1 and 2 which would force us to take drastic action and drag ourselves forward, but there is very little economic proactiveness in our history. There isn't any easy solution, however I think it's fairly obvious that continuing to rely on on primary residences as the sole vehicle to maintain Canadians' expected level of wealth is not sustainable.
This instinctively made this question pop up into my mind: why does Canada exist in the first place?
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10754  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:39 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This instinctively made this question pop up into my mind: why does Canada exist in the first place?
Likely Canada exists because Cartier made it to the St. Lawrence instead of John Cabot, and because a large number of colonial subjects were pretty content to remain under the authority of the British crown with the benefits it provided. By the time America actually had the means to forcibly conquer North America, the cultural gap between the various North American states would've made annexation an untasteful business under modern enlightenment principles.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10755  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:43 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Likely Canada exists because Cartier made it to the St. Lawrence instead of John Cabot, and because a large number of colonial subjects were pretty content to remain under the authority of the British crown with the benefits it provided. By the time America actually had the means to forcibly conquer North America, the cultural gap between the various North American states would've made annexation an untasteful business under modern enlightenment principles.
OK, but I had the current Canadian state in mind more.

The best I could come up with was that the were millions of humans living in the northern half of North America who were not Unitedstatesians and (barring personal migration) that that was unlikely to change, and they needed some structure to govern themselves.
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10756  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:51 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
OK, but I had the current Canadian state in mind more.

The best I could come up with was that the were millions of humans living in the northern half of North America who were not Unitedstatesians and (barring personal migration) that that was unlikely to change, and they needed some structure to govern themselves.
Well I mean past a certain point in history, sovereign nations don't tend to dissolve themselves barring some significant external influence (Germany and it's various concessions after WW1 and WW2) or massive internal strife/civil war. Despite the fact that Canada is not a global economic powerhouse or as innovative as we would like it to be, for the most part we've all led pretty comfortable lives. Apart from periodic regional grievances (some obviously more significant than others) there hasn't been a reason to upset the apple cart.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10757  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:54 PM
Build.It Build.It is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 688
The trucker convoy had:
No deaths
No injuries
No property damage

The only measurable damage was an economic one, due to shipments getting delayed at the border.

If one is going to be critical it is important to use the correct vocabulary and use accurate information. There is no legal definition in the world that would consider the trucker convoy to be an example of "violence".

I'll concede that many of the attendees were "rude", "impolite", "annoying", "uneducated", and "stupid".

However, "violent" they were not.

FYI - even those two morons that brought guns to Coutts were found not guilty of conspiring to kill Mounties.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rcmp-1.7284629
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10758  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:56 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Well I mean past a certain point in history, sovereign nations don't tend to dissolve themselves barring some significant external influence (Germany and it's various concessions after WW1 and WW2) or massive internal strife/civil war. Despite the fact that Canada is not a global economic powerhouse or as innovative as we would like it to be, for the most part we've all led pretty comfortable lives. Apart from periodic regional grievances (some obviously more significant than others) there hasn't been a reason to upset the apple cart.
Agree with this 100% and I often point out a lot of these things.

I guess my real question is whether there is enough there in terms of raison d'être to withstand the (really) tough times?
__________________
No, you're not on my ignore list. Because I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10759  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 5:58 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 36,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Brain Drain I think is a big part of this. Most people who are ambitious and want to push boundaries just move south as it's much easier to do it there (and you get rewarded more handsomely).
More access to venture capital, a more adventurous business climate less adverse to risk, greater potential rewards, less taxation and a culture where business success is celebrated (rather than the prototypical pan-Canadian tall poppy syndrome pervasive north of the 49th parallel).

Why would you stay???
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10760  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 6:02 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Well I mean past a certain point in history, sovereign nations don't tend to dissolve themselves barring some significant external influence (Germany and it's various concessions after WW1 and WW2) or massive internal strife/civil war. Despite the fact that Canada is not a global economic powerhouse or as innovative as we would like it to be, for the most part we've all led pretty comfortable lives. Apart from periodic regional grievances (some obviously more significant than others) there hasn't been a reason to upset the apple cart.
It's kind of a weird imperialist idea that Canada shouldn't exist because we don't have some unifying idealogy. Trudeau calls us post nationalist. I don't think that is correct. We are Canadian even if we don't know exactly what that means we have some ideas. Even when much of it is similar to American or Australian ideas we occupy a different peace of real estate and have different history. Other than Quebec there is no interest in any other province really going it alone. Most of us don't want to join the US trainwreck right now.

For all the doom and gloom we lead the G7 in real income growth from 2000 to 2022. And even under Trudeau caught back up with Germany and saw wide speration from the UK and France.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cha...ies-2000-2022/
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:30 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.