[Dartmouth] Dartmouth Crossing

[Norton97]

I would think that NADL is developing the lands they own; hence, the "row of apartments cutting diagonally through it". With the expansion of Burnside to the north (past the 107 extension), I suspect the lands bordering this development and Savage Drive/Wright Ave would be developed soon as more industrial park properties.

[ns_kid]

According to a Dartmouth Crossing e-mail blast, NSLC is moving into the four-unit plaza on Lemlair Row next spring. That would be the space vacated by Bed, Bath and Beyond, next to The Shoe Company. According to the statement, it will be the biggest NSLC retail outlet, at 20,000 square feet. It doesn’t strike me as an ideal location for a liquor superstore — and I also find that parking lot cramped — but it will no doubt fill a need when the residential development ramps up.

The same statement says the US bakery chain Crumbl Cookies will open later this summer in the Village Shops, across from LL Bean. The virally popular chain began in Utah in 2017 and opened its first Canadian store in BC just 18 months ago. I believe this will be the first east of Ontario.

[Keith P.]

NSLC doesn’t seem to be the same outfit it was 10-15 years ago. The only new stores they seem to have opened in recent years are the tiny annd disappointing Express ones which have very little selection and mostly just their mass market sellers. Having a 20,000 sq ft store makes me wonder what they will put in it as their selection these days is very mediocre.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

NSLC doesn’t seem to be the same outfit it was 10-15 years ago. The only new stores they seem to have opened in recent years are the tiny annd disappointing Express ones which have very little selection and mostly just their mass market sellers. Having a 20,000 sq ft store makes me wonder what they will put in it as their selection these days is very mediocre.

The rep quoted in the AllNS story basically said "our whole catalogue will be available here"

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

The rep quoted in the AllNS story basically said "our whole catalogue will be available here"

That’s actually pretty significant, especially if they include beverages that are regional in nature, like some craft brews that are currently only stocked in stores near the breweries, for example.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That’s actually pretty significant, especially if they include beverages that are regional in nature, like some craft brews that are currently only stocked in stores near the breweries, for example.

In that case I wish them luck selling it. The craft brewery sector is finally going through the inevitable shakeout when many new entrants who rushed in are finding they actually need to make products the consumer is aware of, taste good, and are backed by awareness and promotion in the marketplace. Many have already closed their doors after riding the initial wave to the shore.

A couple of weeks ago I went into one of their cold rooms looking for a 6-pack of canned "macro" beer. That would be my annual purchase since I seldom drink beer except on warm summer afternoons when I have finished mowing my lawn, so it sits in my fridge much of the summer until it is gone. Coors Light or something similar would have been fine.

I was disappointed to discover that I couldn't find a single such offering. There were 8-packs, 12-packs, 15-packs and tall boys galore, none of which I wanted. The shelves were full of singles of brightly-colored but unreadable labels of countless oversized craft brewery products I had never heard of and had zero interest in buying because I wasn't looking for peach-mango-bacon flavored beer or an overly hopped macho beer. It all seemed badly overpriced as well. Then there was the non-beer section with all sorts of sweetened fruit-flavored liquids or other types of non-beer guzzlers. In a cold room that was perhaps 1/3 of the total footprint of the store I could find nothing I wanted. I found myself staring at all these beer brands I had never heard of and in many cases whose labels gave me nothing other than poorly-done graphics but little info on what I was seeing, and wondered how much of all this stuff actually sells. It was almost overwhelming. I just wanted a beer.

Their entire catalog seems to consist of countless types of wine which I also expect must sit on the shelf for a very long time since they get zero advertising, promotion, or product differentiation; the ocean of stuff I found in the cold room, much of which seems in zero danger of purchase; and in the case for spirits, lots of shelf space for the Smirnoffs and Captain Morgans of the world but very little of the premium products like good scotch or bourbon. It is a very strange mix of stuff that the party people buy in quantity, stuff that seems unlikely to sell much at all, and nothing much for people looking to spend on quality/uniqueness in the spirits category over whatever mediocre stuff gets offered to them by agents unwilling to make any effort to source hard-to-get products. They seem to have nobody in-house willing to do the work to find such things.

[OldDartmouthMark]

That’s a lot to chew on, but my opinions are as follows:

1) The craft beer market has been saturated for a few years or longer. I think it’s not unlike the restaurant business, where typically the better, or at least most popular will survive in the long run. The market will decide by voting with their wallets, as usual.

2) While you have just admitted that you don’t actually like beer, there is a whole world of other people who do, and the numerous selections that you mention proves that there is a market for it. NSLC is in it for the cash, make no mistake, so if that stuff didn’t sell it wouldn’t be there.

Meanwhile, most larger craft breweries make beer for the ’Bud Light’ crowd. If you were to look around you could probably find something you like from them. For example, Propeller makes Prime Lager in standard cans that you can purchase in singles, so if a six pack is too much, you can get five.

3) The premium, or higher quality items you are looking for would normally be stocked in a Port store, which it is said that this new store will have.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I was disappointed to discover that I couldn't find a single such offering. There were 8-packs, 12-packs, 15-packs and tall boys galore, none of which I wanted.

Hate to break it to you, Keith, but the industry largely (though not entirely) abandoned six-packs of 355mL/12 oz bottles and cans of beer years ago. They're not at all common anymore, but that's hardly NSLC's fault.

It all seemed badly overpriced as well.

I'm solidly with you there. Unlike you, I do like tallboys (particularly of European brands) and am honestly shocked at the prices. The same brands can be bought in ON and BC for as much as $1-$2 less per can - and probably in other provinces too, but those are the ones I've experienced personally within the last year. Oddly, spirits are broadly the same in NS and ON (some a little less, some a little more), but we're being badly hosed on beer and I can't think of any explanation for it other than pure avarice on the part of our benevolent government liquor monopoly.

...and in the case for spirits, lots of shelf space for the Smirnoffs and Captain Morgans of the world but very little of the premium products like good scotch or bourbon.

I'm a Scotch-bourbon-Irish fan too and I have to say that in my opinion the NSLC has really picked up its game significantly in recent years. Actually, they're mainly just following the market in that regard, with bourbon being a prime example, since it's seen a particularly sharp resurgence in popularity over the last decade or so. In years past it was rare to find more than 2-3 brands in NSLC's mainline (i.e., not "Express" or "Select") stores while now there are typically about a dozen. And if you want a higher-end and broader selection, the Port store on Clyde Street is quite good (picked up a bottle of Michter's there recently, for example). Oh, wait - I forgot you don't drive on the peninsula anymore...never mind.

And as an unsolicited and unrelated closing shot, I'd add that there's no defensible reason for any government to be in the business of retailing consumer goods anyway.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Hate to break it to you, Keith, but the industry largely (though not entirely) abandoned six-packs of 355mL/12 oz bottles and cans of beer years ago. They're not at all common anymore, but that's hardly NSLC's fault.



I'm solidly with you there. Unlike you, I do like tallboys (particularly of European brands) and am honestly shocked at the prices. The same brands can be bought in ON and BC for as much as $1-$2 less per can

I wonder if there's an aspect of economies-of-scale there. But no idea.

As for six-packs, 2 Crows Brewing does 355-ml six packs of its AC Light Lager. Not some super-hopped concoction, just a really crisp, pleasing light beer. I think it's pretty widely available at NSLCs. Even in the craft beer industry, there's been a shift toward easy-drinking lagers and pilsners.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Propeller sells six packs of Pilsner and IPA in glass bottles still. Glass (my preferred container for all beverages) is unfortunately becoming less popular of late, though.

[Keith P.]

It’s good to know some of the small brewers make a lawnmower-style beer. Unfortunately you have to know what and where they are amidst all the clutter. I have never heard of Two Crows but I’ll keep an eye open.

As for Saul’s comment on whisky, just looking online the crew at NB liquor have a far better assortment, probably 20-30% more choices with premium stuff that has never seen NS shores.

[MonctonRad]

Does NSLC have any "depot" or outlet style stores like the ANBL location in Salisbury NB?

https://www.anbl.com/depot

You can buy in bulk for progressively increasing savings, and, they have a decent selection of goods to choose from.

I'm not a big drinker, but, if I'm ever in the mood to stock up, I will head out to Salisbury. It's only about a 10 minute drive from my house in the Magnetic Hill area of Moncton.

It's located right across the road from the Salisbury Big Stop.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Does NSLC have any "depot" or outlet style stores like the ANBL location in Salisbury NB?

https://www.anbl.com/depot

You can buy in bulk for progressively increasing savings, and, they have a decent selection of goods to choose from.

I remember back sometime in the '90s/early '00s they tried one out in early Bayers Lake. No interior decor, a warehouse-style experience. The only savings I recall was that some products offered a modest discount if you bought multiples. The selection was poor despite it being a large store and they really didn't seem to know what to do with the place. Even then they were loathe to offer much in the way of deals. Now they are obsessed with increasing their margin on everything to the point where nothing is reasonable.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Does NSLC have any "depot" or outlet style stores like the ANBL location in Salisbury NB?

https://www.anbl.com/depot

You can buy in bulk for progressively increasing savings, and, they have a decent selection of goods to choose from.

I'm not a big drinker, but, if I'm ever in the mood to stock up, I will head out to Salisbury. It's only about a 10 minute drive from my house in the Magnetic Hill area of Moncton.

It's located right across the road from the Salisbury Big Stop.

I popped in there to see the difference as I usually only buy some cheaper beer just to have. Rudimentary building with no frills and I found my beer to be the same selection for case size and price. I will buy the Tequila version of Blackfly when I am in N.B. for my Sister in law as the NLSC does not list that flavor. I guess that makes me a bootlegger. The NBLC also carries different case sizes than the Nova Scotia stores. 24's instead of 36 packs as an example of Bud Light. 15 Packs in PEI.

I know too much about Beer prices .

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

According to a Dartmouth Crossing e-mail blast, NSLC is moving into the four-unit plaza on Lemlair Row next spring. That would be the space vacated by Bed, Bath and Beyond, next to The Shoe Company. According to the statement, it will be the biggest NSLC retail outlet, at 20,000 square feet. It doesn’t strike me as an ideal location for a liquor superstore — and I also find that parking lot cramped — but it will no doubt fill a need when the residential development ramps up.

I had been in that BB&B store a few times but it always seemed very tight and cluttered to me so I never got a sense of how big it was. 20000 sq ft is the size quoted but I took a drive past it the other day and was astounded at how big the footprint seemed to be. It looked much bigger than that to me. If past is prologue, I can see NSLC building a giant coldroom, a large wine section, and a single shelf gondola for premium spirits.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I had been in that BB&B store a few times but it always seemed very tight and cluttered to me so I never got a sense of how big it was. 20000 sq ft is the size quoted but I took a drive past it the other day and was astounded at how big the footprint seemed to be. It looked much bigger than that to me. If past is prologue, I can see NSLC building a giant coldroom, a large wine section, and a single shelf gondola for premium spirits.

The old BB&B in Moncton at the Mapleton Centre has morphed into a generous sized Mountain Equipment Company store. The NSLC outlet at Dartmouth Crossing should be correspondingly large.

I will have to check it out when it opens.

[ArchAficionado]

As a younger guy recently having grown out of my phase of university partying / heavy drinking, and someone who has lived in the last 5 years in NS, ON, QC, and brief visits to BC/AB, I can say confidently that NS gets solidly hosed on beer.

For example, the same 12 pack of standard cans of a generic beer (Budweiser or Coors, e.g.) costs me about 21-22$ at the grocery / liquor store, and maybe 2-3$ more at a corner store here in Montreal. When I lived in Ontario, (5 or 6 years ago now) it was about that same price, but is now probably more with inflation. Although, at the time, it was just after Doug Ford's "buck a beer" campaign, where you could occasionally luck out and find some 6 packs of "no name" beer (which reportedly was rebottled Budweiser, and tasted as such) for only $6.60 with the bottle deposit.

NS that who time I paid like 30$+. For crappy beer. And sometimes as much for a tall can of a craft beer as I'd expect to pay at a bar or restaurant ($8-9!).

perhaps NS could go the way of ON/QC/BC and allow independent stores / allow the sale of lower proof (beer/wine) in grocery stores such that it can be a lower margin/higher volume product offered close to wholesale. Costco too - here in QC you can still pick up 60 cans (an obscene amount if you're not an alcoholic or throwing a party) of cheaper brands for about $75).

TL;DR of my unconcise ramblings is government monopolies are bad for consumer value and NS should introduce some private ability to sell mass-market alcohol products.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

... TL;DR of my unconcise ramblings is government monopolies are bad for consumer value and NS should introduce some private ability to sell mass-market alcohol products.

Yeah, it can be frustrating. I think, though, that government regulation is not about best value for consumers. I also think that with the recent classification of alcohol as a carcinogen, we're not likely to see less regulation for booze. I sure would like to be able to pick up wine or beer with the rest of my groceries, but I really don't think it'll happen.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

As a younger guy recently having grown out of my phase of university partying / heavy drinking, and someone who has lived in the last 5 years in NS, ON, QC, and brief visits to BC/AB, I can say confidently that NS gets solidly hosed on beer.

For example, the same 12 pack of standard cans of a generic beer (Budweiser or Coors, e.g.) costs me about 21-22$ at the grocery / liquor store, and maybe 2-3$ more at a corner store here in Montreal. When I lived in Ontario, (5 or 6 years ago now) it was about that same price, but is now probably more with inflation. Although, at the time, it was just after Doug Ford's "buck a beer" campaign, where you could occasionally luck out and find some 6 packs of "no name" beer (which reportedly was rebottled Budweiser, and tasted as such) for only $6.60 with the bottle deposit.

NS that who time I paid like 30$+. For crappy beer. And sometimes as much for a tall can of a craft beer as I'd expect to pay at a bar or restaurant ($8-9!).

perhaps NS could go the way of ON/QC/BC and allow independent stores / allow the sale of lower proof (beer/wine) in grocery stores such that it can be a lower margin/higher volume product offered close to wholesale. Costco too - here in QC you can still pick up 60 cans (an obscene amount if you're not an alcoholic or throwing a party) of cheaper brands for about $75).

TL;DR of my unconcise ramblings is government monopolies are bad for consumer value and NS should introduce some private ability to sell mass-market alcohol products.

There are too many union jobs at the NSLC to risk competition.The provincial government also counts on the profits from the NSLC to run the rest of the operations.Its pretty obscene what the Province does to the wine and brew Pub industry here as well.

[AnotherNorthender]

In other news, it looked like a second crane was being assembled on the site near Costco when I drove by at lunch.