Development Rumours

[Empire]

I found the sudden assessment and closure unusual as well in terms of a detailed structural assessment. How many buildings suddenly collapse. If HRM is so concerned about the safety of its residents then fill every pothole!

I hope St. Patrick’s can be saved and fully restored. Maybe a gofundme campaign could be started with HRM making the first significant contribution followed by the province and then the feds.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

I found the sudden assessment and closure unusual as well in terms of a detailed structural assessment. How many buildings suddenly collapse. If HRM is so concerned about the safety of its residents then fill every pothole!

I hope St. Patrick’s can be saved and fully restored. Maybe a gofundme campaign could be started with HRM making the first significant contribution followed by the province and then the feds.

I'm guessing it's not really a question of sudden collapse as it is of bits and pieces falling off the steeple and braining people. But it HAS been neglected for a long time, so who knows.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm guessing it's not really a question of sudden collapse as it is of bits and pieces falling off the steeple and braining people. But it HAS been neglected for a long time, so who knows.

I get it, suddenly it will be raining down steeple bits. The only catastrophe is the way the situation is being handled.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

That's sad to hear. When discussing it as a concert venue, I was hopeful it had a chance to be saved.
The time needed to get this into the hands of someone with the capital and permits is running out fast.

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Apparently the parishioners are launching an appeal to the Vatican. It seems to me that given the historical importance of the building, and the fact that this is registered municipally and provincially, a cost share for urgent repairs between multiple levels of government should be a no-brainer. It’s pretty terrible it’s been allowed to deteriorate like this.

It seems almost unfathomable that a historic building like this would be simply demolished, especially given the craftsmanship displayed inside. Whether it continues as a church, or is repurposed for some other use, nobody builds structures like this anymore, nor will they likely ever. It really deserves to be saved.

Hopefully something will happen here. Certainly the Roman Catholic organization has sufficient funds to do the right thing and repair this building (I suspect it would be a drop in the bucket for them).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

One thing I do not understand and which the article failed to make clear was what exactly motivated the site visit and assessment by HRM building inspectors. I did not think that those bureaucrats were in the habit of passing judgment on existing unaltered buildings as a matter of course. Did someone file a complaint? What kind of structural assessment was done? What is the nature of the structural flaw causing it to be deemed unsafe? Was it signed off by an engineer?

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm guessing it's not really a question of sudden collapse as it is of bits and pieces falling off the steeple and braining people. But it HAS been neglected for a long time, so who knows.

Originally Posted by Empire

I get it, suddenly it will be raining down steeple bits. The only catastrophe is the way the situation is being handled.

I recall hearing (at Doors Open a number of years back) that decorative granite pieces had been removed from the steeple because it couldn't support the weight without some kind of structural repair, so it's not completely clear if the concern is just bits falling off and hitting people (though I would also suspect that's the immediate issue).

It sounds like nobody (including HRM) is really clear as to the extent of the repairs required, as quoted below from the article linked to in a previous post by Drybrain:

Murphy said the estimated cost of immediate renovations was quoted as high as $12.5 million, but he said that was only based on "observed building conditions" and not the result of detailed study of the steeple, tower, and façade.

"You can kind of see what needs to be done at that point, and then we can say, 'What are we dealing with in terms of a cost? What's the plan going forward?'"

He said the group of parishioners want to undertake an intrusive study paid for by funds raised by the St. Patrick’s Restoration Society.

Murphy said they delivered a detailed appeal to the Vatican's Embassy in Ottawa on June 18.

"Pending the outcome of our appeal to the Vatican, we plan to work with the archdiocese in securing a reasonable quote for repair of St. Patrick’s Church based first on immediate needs, then short-term repairs and lastly, long-term renovations to save St. Patrick’s for future generations."

[JET]

it is just a church. The most incredible basilica that I have seen in HRM was at the Motherhouse, yet it was razed without a whimper.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

it is just a church. The most incredible basilica that I have seen in HRM was at the Motherhouse, yet it was razed without a whimper.

All the more reason to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

[IanWatson]

Yesterday Regional Council initiated a process to create a "downtown gateway" for the triangle of lands between Cogswell, Rainnie, and Gottingen. Highlights include new public space, closing Rainnie to automobile traffic, and establishing a new height framework that goes from 3 storeys at the roundabout up to 24 storeys at the corner of Gottingen and Cogswell.

A concept site plan is on page 5 of the staff report: https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default...0806rc1512.pdf

[LikesBikes]

I don't love the amount of surface parking still being shown there. Also, it'd be nice if the Feds were to do something with that part of the Citadel. Currently that area of the hill is never used despite it being so centrally located in the city. Some trees, plants, benches and a pathway could go a long way there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I didn't read through all the text, but it looks like they have decided to demolish the Centennial pool? I don't think I've heard anything about it since the winter. I recall that there were groups working to convince the City to save it, but apparently they were unsuccessful.

My quick initial impressions are that as a 'gateway' it's kind of underwhelming. Basically just a plan to redevelop city-owned lands but not offer much of substance other than to finish squeezing off Rainnie Dr. for traffic and making it into a 'park'. Maybe I'm missing something but when I read "downtown gateway" I was envisioning something substantial that made an impression, not just more buildings (which will be good for density increases, but otherwise unimpressive).

I do wonder if they have a plan to replace the recreational value of the pool that they are taking away from local residents, though.

[ILoveHalifax]

Yes, this is crazy but how about a giant rock garden on Citadel Hill - ground phlox and golden alyssum, etc. grow so well in Halifax - could be the largest rock garden in Canada, North America, the Worl....

[new2halifax]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I didn't read through all the text, but it looks like they have decided to demolish the Centennial pool? I don't think I've heard anything about it since the winter. I recall that there were groups working to convince the City to save it, but apparently they were unsuccessful.

Seems it's still up in the air:

"Training and Competition Aquatic Facility Study: Regional Council directed staff to advance an Aquatic Facility Study, and report back to Regional Council with its findings and recommendations for the development of such a facility. This project is currently underway and could have implications for the future of the Centennial Pool site."

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by new2halifax

Seems it's still up in the air:

"Training and Competition Aquatic Facility Study: Regional Council directed staff to advance an Aquatic Facility Study, and report back to Regional Council with its findings and recommendations for the development of such a facility. This project is currently underway and could have implications for the future of the Centennial Pool site."

Ah, thanks!

[ArchAficionado]

Originally Posted by new2halifax

Seems it's still up in the air:

"Training and Competition Aquatic Facility Study: Regional Council directed staff to advance an Aquatic Facility Study, and report back to Regional Council with its findings and recommendations for the development of such a facility. This project is currently underway and could have implications for the future of the Centennial Pool site."

Man, what a bureacratic jargon nothingburger.

When I swam competitively for the Halifax Trojans in my teenage years, centennial pool was critical to the livelihood of the sport as one of only two long course meters (50m) pools in the entire province (the other being the similarly aging Dalplex pool). Over a decade later this is still the case, and the idea of removing it (it is indeed an aging facility) but not replacing it with a larger and more modern facility pains me. There should be a municipal mandate that recreation facilities when they reach end of life are replaced with like-for-like facilities, at minimum. I resent the idea of more drab apartment towers continually encroaching on previously public-amenity spaces; eventually, there will be nothing to do but sit at home.

The city has argued before (which, especially in the swimming community is poorly received, and rightly so) that the "pool need" in this area is met by the new commons pool and by needham pool, the former being an outdoor pool closed for the entire competitive season, and for more than half the year, and the latter being a uselessly puny and decrepit facility to handle any more than those who live within immediate walking distance.

This sidesteps the earlier disappointment for those in competitive swimming when the opportunity presented itself to build an olympic-caliber facility with the construction of the canada games center 15 years ago, but they cheaped out and went with a short course meters pool. No long term thinking there.

Do better, Halifax, you've been letting the aquatic community down for decades!

[Keith P.]

Yeah, I'm sure HRM is doing what they usually do when it comes to rehabbing facilities for which they have neglected maintenance for many years until it is almost too late. They are doing something similar with the Memorial Library. Either build an entirely new replacement for the Centennial Pool with improved facilities, or do a big upgrade to the existing building. With HRM eyeing the site for some of the planners flight-of-fancy dreams of "city building", a badly abused term, it is in jeopardy.

[eastcoastal]

I feel like the Centennial Pool is a building that should be considered for heritage designation. It's a significant example of a time when, in post-WWII, Canada was really trying to position itself as exemplary of the new world, free of cultural baggage that had led to two world wars. It fits in there with Peacekeeping and the development of sport as a point of national pride - Canada Games began as a way to lead to improved performance in the olympics, which fit into a federal approach to soft power internationally.

Centennial building projects across Canada used the language of modernism to move away from the british links evident in Parliament Hill and many other government buildings, and to avoid Republican/Greek architecture of domes and columns of American national buildings. Modernism was supposed to be more egalitarian and less rooted in a "dominant" and "colonizing" culture. Beyond just rejecting gothic-inspired British colonial symbols of power, the Centennial building projects in Canada were meant to reflect a young, vibrant, and energetic nation. We were still young on the world's stage.

So, Centennial Pool, which was built the year Canada held its very first Canada Games, brings a lot of those moves together: it marks 100 years of nationhood, it rejects British/Gothic expression in favour of modernism, and it supports Canada's desire to compete above its relatively small size on the international stage, whether that's sport or diplomacy.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I feel like the Centennial Pool is a building that should be considered for heritage designation. It's a significant example of a time when, in post-WWII, Canada was really trying to position itself as exemplary of the new world, free of cultural baggage that had led to two world wars. It fits in there with Peacekeeping and the development of sport as a point of national pride - Canada Games began as a way to lead to improved performance in the olympics, which fit into a federal approach to soft power internationally.

Centennial building projects across Canada used the language of modernism to move away from the british links evident in Parliament Hill and many other government buildings, and to avoid Republican/Greek architecture of domes and columns of American national buildings. Modernism was supposed to be more egalitarian and less rooted in a "dominant" and "colonizing" culture. Beyond just rejecting gothic-inspired British colonial symbols of power, the Centennial building projects in Canada were meant to reflect a young, vibrant, and energetic nation. We were still young on the world's stage.

So, Centennial Pool, which was built the year Canada held its very first Canada Games, brings a lot of those moves together: it marks 100 years of nationhood, it rejects British/Gothic expression in favour of modernism, and it supports Canada's desire to compete above its relatively small size on the international stage, whether that's sport or diplomacy.

Well said.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I feel like the Centennial Pool is a building that should be considered for heritage designation. It's a significant example of a time when, in post-WWII, Canada was really trying to position itself as exemplary of the new world, free of cultural baggage that had led to two world wars. It fits in there with Peacekeeping and the development of sport as a point of national pride - Canada Games began as a way to lead to improved performance in the olympics, which fit into a federal approach to soft power internationally.

Centennial building projects across Canada used the language of modernism to move away from the british links evident in Parliament Hill and many other government buildings, and to avoid Republican/Greek architecture of domes and columns of American national buildings. Modernism was supposed to be more egalitarian and less rooted in a "dominant" and "colonizing" culture. Beyond just rejecting gothic-inspired British colonial symbols of power, the Centennial building projects in Canada were meant to reflect a young, vibrant, and energetic nation. We were still young on the world's stage.

So, Centennial Pool, which was built the year Canada held its very first Canada Games, brings a lot of those moves together: it marks 100 years of nationhood, it rejects British/Gothic expression in favour of modernism, and it supports Canada's desire to compete above its relatively small size on the international stage, whether that's sport or diplomacy.

This is an exceptional post. It would, of course, might as well have been written in Sanscrit since it will sail far above the heads of the current crop of HRM planners and council members.

A few years ago I saw on one of the streaming services, either Apple or Prime, an outstanding documentary on those times. There actually may have been two different ones - one about Expo itself and the whole process of building it and how people responded, and a second one about the modernist design trend of the time within Canada that spilled over into logo design for various companies and so on. Both were fascinating and showed a Canadian optimism and energy that I barely recognize today. It is saddening to recognize how much we have slipped.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Yesterday Regional Council initiated a process to create a "downtown gateway" for the triangle of lands between Cogswell, Rainnie, and Gottingen. Highlights include new public space, closing Rainnie to automobile traffic, and establishing a new height framework that goes from 3 storeys at the roundabout up to 24 storeys at the corner of Gottingen and Cogswell.

A concept site plan is on page 5 of the staff report: https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default...0806rc1512.pdf

The "downtown gateway" site footprint is large enough that the Centennial Pool could be incorporated and add to the gateway experience.

[OldDartmouthMark]

All that, and the logic of removing a recreational facility from the very area where you are working on increasing population density escapes me completely.