Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

I generally find your posts interesting and thought provoking, but this took the level of discourse on this thread down several notches.

Unfortunate.

Sorry to disappoint you. I promise to try to do better next time.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

For the UdeM Moncton campus, you could argue this is the most complete university campus in the entire province, containing both a law school and a medical school, as well as a large engineering school and extensive post graduate programs. On the anglophone side, these faculties are split between UNBF and UNBSJ.

Compared to the large francophone university in Moncton, anglophone Monctonians (the majority) have to put up with a tiny 800 student private religious university (Crandall University), which forces you to attend chapel every day, has a very strict Christian moral code (not a friendly environment for gays etc), and has rudimentary programs and no affiliation with the Maritime Provinces Higher Education Council. The only substantive program they have is an education faculty (designed to produce morally upright graduates to guide the tender minds of the provinces youth).

Yes, francophone Monctonians are a truly oppressed minority.

You know the standard comeback is that Anglo Monctonians have Mt. Allison! ;-)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

You know the standard comeback is that Anglo Monctonians have Mt. Allison! ;-)

Oh I know.

1) - Not in the Moncton CMA
2) - 50 km out of town. No transit connections.
3) - a small national calibre university with higher standards than a typical "city" university.
4) - no ambitions beyond being a high calibre undergraduate university.
5) - no professional programs

None of this matters however.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

You know the standard comeback is that Anglo Monctonians have Mt. Allison! ;-)

Plus Dalhousie’s pretty much just down the road too.

[Acajack]

Does the province of New Brunswick owe anglophones a comprehensive university at a single location in Moncton (or even Saint John?) or does it owe them a comprehensive university teaching in their language somewhere reasonably accessible in the province?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Plus Dalhousie’s pretty much just down the road too.

Yeah, 250 km down the road.

And, with food and lodging required, the effective cost for attending the university would be at least double (if not more) the cost of that of a francophone Monctonian living at home and going to UdeM.

[Acajack]

Saint John has significantly more anglophones than Moncton, and Fredericton has about the same number of anglophones as Moncton. Why would the government of New Brunswick prioritize Moncton for anglophone university offerings? (Even if anglophones are the majority in Moncton. Anglophones are the majority in Jacquet River too. They don't get their own university as a result of that.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Does the province of New Brunswick owe anglophones a comprehensive university at a single location in Moncton (or even Saint John?) or does it owe them a comprehensive university teaching in their language somewhere reasonably accessible in the province?

How many campuses does the Universite de Quebec system have? Seems to me that UNB is missing campuses in southeastern NB and in northern NB (either Miramichi or Bathurst).

UdeM has three campuses (in the southeast, northeast and northwest). Why are there only two UNB campuses?

I'm not suggesting a comprehensive UNBM. It would make a big difference to the costs (and accessibility) of a university education to anglophone Monctonians if they could at least get a quality undergraduate degree at home. If they have to leave the city for a professional or graduate degree, I would be OK with that.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

maîtres chez nous.

As opposed to… “slaves to foreigners”? Not a hard decision for most people!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

maîtres chez nous.

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the Ukrainians would like and be content with, right now. It’s a very reasonable and natural demand Just curious, do you support it? When you have no dog in the fight and thus can allow yourself to be reasonable …

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Saint John has significantly more anglophones than Moncton, and Fredericton has about the same number of anglophones as Moncton. Why would the government of New Brunswick prioritize Moncton for anglophone university offerings? (Even if anglophones are the majority in Moncton. Anglophones are the majority in Jacquet River too. They don't get their own university as a result of that.)

The Moncton CMA is now about 180,000. The ratio remains about 2:1 anglophone therefore there should be about 120,000 anglophones in Moncton. This is a little less than SJ (130,000) but more than Freddy (110,000). We have the population base for it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

How many campuses does the Universite de Quebec system have? Seems to me that UNB is missing campuses in southeastern NB and in northern NB (either Miramichi or Bathurst).

UdeM has three campuses (in the southeast, northeast and northwest). Why are there only two UNB campuses?

I'm not suggesting a comprehensive UNBM. It would make a big difference to the costs (and accessibility) of a university education to anglophone Monctonians if they could at least get a quality undergraduate degree at home. If they have to leave the city for a professional or graduate degree, I would be OK with that.

Maybe you should ask your government, or take them to task if you don't like the answers. You're two thirds of voters after all.

Seriously though, I actually agree that there are major gaps in post-secondary here and there in the country. But with the foreign student brouhaha we're more likely to see a contraction of offerings than an expansion.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Yeah, 250 km down the road.

And, with food and lodging required, the effective cost for attending the university would be at least double (if not more) the cost of that of a francophone Monctonian living at home and going to UdeM.

It would be interesting to view the data to see where Anglo Moncton students go for their university studies. It would not be surprising if a significant cohort end up in Halifax.

Would an English version of UdeM keep these students at home and if so, would there be a negative impact on UNB and MTA?

Perhaps the duality argument can be used as justification for a comparable English language university in Moncton.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Concordia, McGill to take Quebec to court over tuition hikes for out-of-province students
Montreal's Concordia University sees 27% drop in applicants from rest of Canada
Kwabena Oduro, Isaac Olson, Matthew Lapierre · CBC News · Posted: Feb 22, 2024 7:07 PM AST | Last Updated: 11 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/concordia-mcgill-quebec-tuition-1.7122947

With that logic, I’ll take the government to court next time they decide to raise my taxes! How dare a democratically-elected government EVER change things! It’ll affect people! Who will then sue them!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

It would be interesting to view the data to see where Anglo Moncton students go for their university studies. It would not be surprising if a significant cohort end up in Halifax.

Would an English version of UdeM keep these students at home and if so, would there be a negative impact on UNB and MTA?

Perhaps the duality argument can be used as justification for a comparable English language university in Moncton.

Anecdotally, judging from where my sons and their friends went, the biggest cohorts went to UNBF, Dalhousie, StFX and Acadia. MTA lagged behind, probably (1) because it has very high admission standards and (2) if you have to leave home to go to university, then you might as well go someplace really different for a whole new experience.

My three sons went to MTA. UNBF and Acadia.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Moncton CMA is now about 180,000. The ratio remains about 2:1 anglophone therefore there should be about 120,000 anglophones in Moncton. This is a little less than SJ (130,000) but more than Freddy (110,000). We have the population base for it.

I live in a metro area of over 350,000 people that has been seriously neglected by Quebec in terms of university offerings historically. There was always the perception here that Outaouais kids would just cross the river and go to the (more or less bilingual) University of Ottawa. Which they have done for over 100 years. The University of Ottawa even has a civil code law school located on Ontario territory but that teaches only Quebec law and has trained most of the lawyers currently practising in Gatineau.

Gatineau has a university that is part of the Université du Québec system, the UQO, which is not what you'd call comprehensive. It offers less stuff than the Université de Moncton does.

It has no medicine, no engineering, and limited scientific programs. They only just started up a law school last year, which will eventually likely cannibalize a lot of Gatineau law students who currently go to the University of Ottawa for law. Due to difference in tuition: 3500-4000 a year in Gatineau, and almost 15000 a year in Ottawa.

The UQO is still a university under development, you might say.

[Acajack]

They won't back down. No they won't back down.

https://twitter.com/Gilbro2010/status/1761115183261397323

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

With that logic, I’ll take the government to court next time they decide to raise my taxes! How dare a democratically-elected government EVER change things! It’ll affect people! Who will then sue them!

These sorts of initiatives can only push the OUI vote a few percentage points up. These people are really stupid. Or perhaps they just take Québec for granted at this point and don't seriously imagine that the province could ever secede.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Definition: shitting, as the posts of many of you deriding the Anglos.

Oh, you mean like when we derided that Anglo guy wanting to be served in English on that Air Canada flight? Wait, it was a Franco wanting to be served in French. Wait again, it wasn't one of the many of us doing the deriding, it was you.

A French Canadian wanting services in French is a whinner crying about nothing but an Anglo Canadian wanting services in English is courageously fighting a dictatorship, right?

That 7-Up guy seems to be your favorite go to target, right after Galen Weston Jr for some reasons.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Interesting, whenever New Brunswick is mentioned, you move the goal posts for your argument. Must hurt to know NB treats it Franco minority much better than Quebec treats its Anglo minority.

In terms of Universities and other PSIs, Manitoba has Universite de Saint-Boniface. Unlike "English" universities in Quebec which must have French first bilingual exterior and interior signage, all signage at USB is French only; outside of some safety signage which is French first bilingual.

Alberta has the French campus of the UofA - campus Saint-Jean. In Nova Scotia, there's Université Sainte-Anne. And in New Brunswick, there's Universite de Moncton with campuses in Moncton, Edmundston and Shippagan, as well as the CCNB with five campuses throughout the province. Plus, Ontario offers many PSIs where students can receive their education in French.

In terms of health care, Manitoba has two designated bilingual health authorities: Southern Health-Sante Sud and Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. The following are a listing of bilingual facilities, programs and services offered at the WRHA: https://wrha.mb.ca/francophone-health/designated-bilingual-facilities/. Southern Health-Sante Sud has its own listing of bilingual offering. Plus, any service offered through Manitoba Health must be available in both English and French.

For Ontario, you can research the French Language Services Act to see what's is covered for healthcare.

No goal post is getting moved. I said many times that New Brunswick is bilingual and offers good services in French. Better than English services in Québec? No, simply because there are many more bilingual people in Québec that can (and do) offer services in English, both in the public and private sectors. No one in Canada tops that, but English Canada will never acknowledge it because it would destroy the mainstream narrative that Canada is generous and open while Québec is bigoted and closed.

According to what I found on the Internet, l'Université de St-Boniface has 1333 students. Not bad at all. It does limit the number of programs it can offer, but it is still something. McGill has over 32 000, Concordia 30 000 and Bishop over 2500 (all full time equivalent for Québec's universities). Many more ressources are put in English universities in Québec. Manitoba isn't bad, especially in the Canadian context, but it doesn't even get close to Québec (both in education and healthcare).