[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[sailor734]

Here's an issue that needs to be addressed if we want to see continued growth and development up town. I ran into a friend today and they were telling me one of their kids (30-ish) had recently sold their condo in Harbourfront Residences and taken an apartment in Millidgeville while they looked for a house.


The reason? The couple felt unsafe uptown. The wife has had a several unpleasant encounters with aggressive panhandlers and one particularly upsetting experience with a person who was either very high or mentally ill and out of control who threatened to kill her dog. She no longer felt safe taking their dog for a walk after supper by herself.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is but the problem is making uptown an unattractive place to be.

As a lifelong SJ resident I've noticed it myself. A few weeks ago I parked on Germain by the Market and walked to the Urban Shoe Myth to pickup something my wife had ordered. I was approached by panhandlers twice in King St and on the way back encountered a guy waving his arms and carrying on a loud and violent argument with the air. It makes King St a place I don't want to be.

Once again, no idea what the solution is but the situation is a definite detriment to uptown growth.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Here's an issue that needs to be addressed if we want to see continued growth and development up town. I ran into a friend today and they were telling me one of their kids (30-ish) had recently sold their condo in Harbourfront Residences and taken an apartment in Millidgeville while they looked for a house.


The reason? The couple felt unsafe uptown. The wife has had a several unpleasant encounters with aggressive panhandlers and one particularly upsetting experience with a person who was either very high or mentally ill and out of control who threatened to kill her dog. She no longer felt safe taking their dog for a walk after supper by herself.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is but the problem is making uptown an unattractive place to be.

As a lifelong SJ resident I've noticed it myself. A few weeks ago I parked on Germain by the Market and walked to the Urban Shoe Myth to pickup something my wife had ordered. I was approached by panhandlers twice in King St and on the way back encountered a guy waving his arms and carrying on a loud and violent argument with the air. It makes King St a place I don't want to be.

Once again, no idea what the solution is but the situation is a definite detriment to uptown growth.

I live uptown (for 25 years now). We are in the “3rd wave” of a fentanyl wave that is hitting all North American cities. I don’t know anyone in my neighborhood that has not had their backyard rummaged through let alone things stolen. Addicts are getting very desperate for cash and are more aggressive / taking risks. My friend by Queen Sq had “zombie” like guy circling in their back yard and addicts trying to open his front door. I’ve seen people shooting up outside of dollarama at PES mall and when I came out they were passed out on sidewalk. Dollarama now has security and I witnessed people come in, grab what they want and walk out without a care. Cashier says they are not permitted to do anything. My advice is do not engage in any way with someone that confronts you on street - just keep going and don’t even acknowledge them. Having said that, other areas of city aren’t immune to the crime wave. Theft is a big issue in the suburbs too. We need a bigger police presence on the street. What ever happened to foot patrols and police on bikes? A couple months ago was the first time I ever considered carrying a protective device - wanted to have a collapsible baton. But once I researched it, if I ever needed to use it I’d be the one that would be charged criminally, even if I was being attacked. If I carried a baseball bat and hit an attacker with it, the only way I would not be charged is if I was legitimately carrying it to or from a baseball game or practice I participated in. Mental health crisis not helping either - instead of being institutionalized like they did 30 years ago, they now live in group homes concentrated in the uptown and central area of the city. So yea, it’s an issue…

[adamuptownsj]

deleted

[sailor734]

Maybe the city needs to deploy private security in the uptown core the way Moncton has done?

[sailor734]

Funny coincidence (or not so funny)....... after posting about the street people issues uptown. I was uptown today and parked on Charlotte across from the Market (outside the old BNS building). After I got out I realized I had forgotten my shopping bag and opened the car again to grab one. I must have not hit the lock button enough to relock the car the second time. Was in the Market for 10 minutes tops but when I came back coins were gone from center console and the glovebox was hanging open. Fortunately it must have been a quick grab and go as there was an expensive rain jacket on the backseat, a pair of RayBans in the overhead sunglass cubby and a 300+ dollar Mustang inflatable life jacket on the floor in the back. ....all still there.

Uptown Saint John 2023

[adamuptownsj]

You would think with a mayor and 4 councillors living south of the viaduct there would be some interest in dealing with the situation. But, no. Totally absentee. Allowing welfare payments without a fixed address is functionally reverse money laundering: giving government money to drug dealers. It has to stop. I don't see another fix. Implement mandatory treatment following ANY law enforcement encounter.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Funny coincidence (or not so funny)....... after posting about the street people issues uptown. I was uptown today and parked on Charlotte across from the Market (outside the old BNS building). After I got out I realized I had forgotten my shopping bag and opened the car again to grab one. I must have not hit the lock button enough to relock the car the second time. Was in the Market for 10 minutes tops but when I came back coins were gone from center console and the glovebox was hanging open. Fortunately it must have been a quick grab and go as there was an expensive rain jacket on the backseat, a pair of RayBans in the overhead sunglass cubby and a 300+ dollar Mustang inflatable life jacket on the floor in the back. ....all still there.

Uptown Saint John 2023

No doubt you were being eyed by someone nearby.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

You would think with a mayor and 4 councillors living south of the viaduct there would be some interest in dealing with the situation. But, no. Totally absentee. Allowing welfare payments without a fixed address is functionally reverse money laundering: giving government money to drug dealers. It has to stop. I don't see another fix. Implement mandatory treatment following ANY law enforcement encounter.

I agree 100%. They must be expecting this to go away on it's own? Or perhaps that because the issue is so widespread all over North America they think that it's the new normal? If we try to understand why they are doing nothing about it, we'll drive ourselves mad trying to figure it out. I pray that when we get a new Prime Minister that he virtue signals that this type of behavior is unacceptable and actually tries to do something about it. We need new leadership, I understand that it is more than this, but it would be a good place to start. The liberation of drugs isn't good.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Funny coincidence (or not so funny)....... after posting about the street people issues uptown. I was uptown today and parked on Charlotte across from the Market (outside the old BNS building). After I got out I realized I had forgotten my shopping bag and opened the car again to grab one. I must have not hit the lock button enough to relock the car the second time. Was in the Market for 10 minutes tops but when I came back coins were gone from center console and the glovebox was hanging open. Fortunately it must have been a quick grab and go as there was an expensive rain jacket on the backseat, a pair of RayBans in the overhead sunglass cubby and a 300+ dollar Mustang inflatable life jacket on the floor in the back. ....all still there.

Uptown Saint John 2023

I think that is mental to pin that to just Saint John 2023.
Why is anyone in 2023 leaving their car unlocked?

I don't care if I'm parked in Vancouver, Boston, Sussex or Saint John. Always lock your car these days. That's just asking for trouble and things to be stolen, no matter what city / town you're in.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I think that is mental to pin that to just Saint John 2023.
Why is anyone in 2023 leaving their car unlocked?

I don't care if I'm parked in Vancouver, Boston, Sussex or Saint John. Always lock your car these days. That's just asking for trouble and things to be stolen, no matter what city / town you're in.

Circular logic. We do not need to accept this. 'These days' just means the government has totally abandoned their most basic job of providing law and order. All levels. Overnight is one thing, ten minutes on a public busy street is another. If we have a duty to lock our stuff up, government certainly has a duty to prevent illegal public camping, rampant drug use, public defecation, drug dealing, and so on. Anarcho-tyranny/rule by the homeless is getting tiring.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I think that is mental to pin that to just Saint John 2023.
Why is anyone in 2023 leaving their car unlocked?

I don't care if I'm parked in Vancouver, Boston, Sussex or Saint John. Always lock your car these days. That's just asking for trouble and things to be stolen, no matter what city / town you're in.

Jeeeez! Read the post. It wasn't like I deliberately left it unlocked. I have keyless entry so I touched the door handle and walked away. Obviously my finger didn't make good enough contact with the sensor. I was hurrying and didn't catch the fact it failed to engage.
I wasn't suggesting this sort of issue was unique to SJ but certainly points to a very undesirable aspect of Uptown as a place to live, recreate or shop. The number of panhandlers and street people with obvious drug or mental health issues has exploded in recent years.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Jeeeez! Read the post. It wasn't like I deliberately left it unlocked. I have keyless entry so I touched the door handle and walked away. Obviously my finger didn't make good enough contact with the sensor. I was hurrying and didn't catch the fact it failed to engage.
I wasn't suggesting this sort of issue was unique to SJ but certainly points to a very undesirable aspect of Uptown as a place to live, recreate or shop. The number of panhandlers and street people with obvious drug or mental health issues has exploded in recent years.

Are there no laws on the books about panhandling in SJ? Also, I’m embarrassed seeing cruise ship visitors (and locals) have to watch that guy doing flips and landing on his back and arse like he’s in the wrestling federation on King St Princess and Canterbury.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Are there no laws on the books about panhandling in SJ? Also, I’m embarrassed seeing cruise ship visitors (and locals) have to watch that guy doing flips and landing on his back and arse like he’s in the wrestling federation on King St Princess and Canterbury.

I saw that guy a couple of months ago on Prince William while we were having lunch on the patio at Cask and Kettle! Long blonde hair right? What the hell is up with him??

He comes so close to landing on his head it's like watching a train wreck about to happen

[adamuptownsj]

Backflip Guy has been around for 5+ years, he gets worse every time.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Backflip Guy has been around for 5+ years, he gets worse every time.

Well, they were all on display today. We had 3 cruise ships in. maybe that brings them out of the woodwork and onto uptown streets.

Great introduction to Saint John for those 8-10 thousand passengers. :

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Well, they were all on display today. We had 3 cruise ships in. maybe that brings them out of the woodwork and onto uptown streets.

Great introduction to Saint John for those 8-10 thousand passengers. :

As already stated this is not a Saint John only prob. Sadly nearly every part of North America is in this same position. I visited 12 states this month alone, from major metro cities to rural areas and have seen this everywhere. What’s the solution? I believe it’s multi faceted, starting with good leadership, local & federal governments, etc. but the saying how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time comes to mind.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by RR Drummer

As already stated this is not a Saint John only prob. Sadly nearly every part of North America is in this same position. I visited 12 states this month alone, from major metro cities to rural areas and have seen this everywhere. What’s the solution? I believe it’s multi faceted, starting with good leadership, local & federal governments, etc. but the saying how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time comes to mind.

I agree. I think some of the negative effects of the issue here stem from the "in your face" nature of the problem. That may be due to how small Saint John is.

In big cities much of the evidence of the problem is confined to the "bad" neighbourhoods . In Vancouver East Hastings is like a scene from a movie while a few blocks away in Yaletown or on the False Creek seawall it's all upscale urban chic.

I realize ghetto-ization of the homeless does nothing to solve the problem but at least it allows other areas to continue to function in more of a "normal" way.

I realize there is a lot of distain for "move along" policies that just push the problems out of sight but at least they allow certain areas of a city to be protected/defended

[DyAm00394]

In the upcoming Common Council agenda is the new name for the public spaces of the Market Slip redevelopment. It will be named "Ihtoli-maqahamok” (The Gathering Space).

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

In the upcoming Common Council agenda is the new name for the public spaces of the Market Slip redevelopment. It will be named "Ihtoli-maqahamok” (The Gathering Space).

Fascinating pandering- Italy Mega-Hammock. Did they not even pronounce it first? I'll continue to call it Loyalist Square, as will most. The Gathering Space sounds as generic as possible, and precisely nobody is going to call it Italy Mega Hammock. They just aren't.

Also, they're eliminating 20 residential parking spaces on Charlotte and making it one-way from Duke to Broad. This is to accommodate a bike lane. It has been determined that eliminating residential parking that also serves the Farmer's Market, on a street with 30 km/h traffic generally, is 'progressive and welcoming'.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Fascinating pandering- Italy Mega-Hammock. Did they not even pronounce it first? I'll continue to call it Loyalist Square, as will most. The Gathering Space sounds as generic as possible, and precisely nobody is going to call it Italy Mega Hammock. They just aren't.

Seems like they are getting pretty foolish with names all around, if that makes you feel any better.