NEW YORK | 2 Penn Plaza | 412 FT | 31 FLOORS

[JMKeynes]

The plot thickens....

Once thing is certain: This area will dwarf the HY.

https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/

[NYguy]

From the redevelopment thread...I may have to merge the two.

Originally Posted by NYguy

I wonder if Cuomo's proposal will include a return of this proposal for 2 Penn...it would have lifted a max FAR cap on the site.

Can't say that I am shocked.




https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/

Vornado considers tearing down 2 Penn to make way for giant tower
Steve Roth says REIT has grand plan for Penn Plaza "Promised Land"


By Kathryn Brenzel
April 09, 2018

In his annual letter to investors, Vornado Realty Trust CEO Steve Roth said the company is considering razing 2 Penn Plaza to make way for a new building that would double the current tower’s footprint.

By demolishing the 1.6-million-square-foot tower, Vornado would potentially be able to transfer some of the 5 million square feet of air rights at Madison Square Garden, which the real estate investment trust co-owns with the Dolan family. Some of the air rights could be “sprinkled to adjacent sites,” Roth noted, but the intention seems to be to create massive new development.

“The old 2 Penn has a 60,000 square foot footprint, the new [one] would have a 120,000 square foot-plus footprint at the base, perfect for our creative class tenants,” Roth said. “There would be towers above and a significant retail component below sandwiched between the train station and the office base.”

Unlocking those air rights would require the redevelopment of Penn Station.

[JMKeynes]

NY clearly is the Greatest City in the World!

[yankeesfan1000]

More takeaways. Having only three to five new buildings potentially account for the 5MM sf of development rights that sit on top of MSG, would make those very large buildings.

"...Roth does seem, however, to envision a large-scale reboot of Penn Plaza, which he refers to in the letter as the “Promised Land.” He says the REIT’s “grand plan” is to construct three to five new buildings on the sites it owns in the district...

...According to Roth, tearing down 2 Penn Station would allow light to reach the eastern half of Penn Station and enable improvements to the station — also a stated goal of the governor. Roth envisions the improvement would be “self-financed” through payments in lieu of taxes..."

[C.]

We need to see more of this - development above what is allowed by zoning in exchange for public benefit. The city and the state no longer have the funding available for the much needed infrastructure investments, so it's time to unlock the value of the land.

[NYguy]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how they intend to double the footprint. That would mean reclaiming the 7th Ave space, and possibly some of the space between MSG.

[JMKeynes]

They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.

No, that site is too small, and they aren't going to take down 1 Penn.

[JMKeynes]

True. It is too small. Hopefully, they intend to raze MSG and build the tower over the 8th Ave side of the current station.

[Prezrezc]

Two things I wouldn't mind seeing bite the dust:

1. 2 Penn...that squat embarrassment.

2. MSG. And take the Knics and rangers with them. Dolan, Sather and Gorton are Moe, Larry and Curly Joe.

[Prezrezc]

I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Prezrezc

I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.

Obviously they wouldn't recycle those exact proposals for this site, but Foster is well capable, as is Bjark Ingels BIG, which may or may not still be on.

[chris08876]

Vornado picks Bjarke Ingels revamp of 2 Penn Plaza over demolition

So much for replacing 2 Penn Plaza with a new ground-up building; Vornado Realty Trust’s CEO, Steven Roth, announced Tuesday that it was sticking to the planned Bjarke Ingels redesign of the building, instead of demolishing the existing structure. The Commercial Observer first reported the news, which Roth announced on Vornado’s first quarter earnings call, yesterday.

Though the 2 Penn Plaza revamp is at least two years away, Roth indicated that a complete demolition of the existing structure didn’t seem feasible, and that the Bjarke Ingels design was the best way to move forward.

The revamp plan would add nearly 300,000 square feet of space to the existing building, and make the floor plates on the lower floors more appealing to future tenants. One of the notable features of the Ingels redesign was the flowing, glass skirt-like structure that would be located over the entrance to the building. Other aspects of this revamp include adding a floor-to-ceiling glass facade, redoing the interiors, and upgrading the mechanical systems in the building.

==================
NYCurbed

[citybooster]

So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station? Nothing continuing the present status should be considered... we cannot have an underground, lightless, lifeless maze where so many people come into and leave the city. We'll have Moynihan Station for a more than good enough facsimile of the past with Penn Station, though even that fine building can't do the scale of majestic grandeur that was the old Penn Station. Hopefully we can have a better experience than scurrying out like rats a dour, dank underground.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by citybooster

So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station?

The Cuomo plan, which includes removing the theater at MSG for a new entrance on 8th Avenue is still moving forward, but Vornado had a greater plan here for the 7th Avenue side. And there is still the matter of the MSG air rights that have to go somewhere.

[Amanita]

It will be interesting to see how Two Penn does with a reclad

[Busy Bee]

What a boner killer

[chris08876]

So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.

[NYer34]

Originally Posted by chris08876

So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.

^^ Meh. The area itself really isn't that bad, other than the urban-development follies of MSG / 1 Penn Plaza / 2 Penn Plaza. Otherwise the area is well developed and fairly pleasant - it just needs some good gentrification.

[NYguy]

^ It's bad considering what and where it is. We're talking Penn Station, the top commuter transit hub in the country. It should be as developed as the area around Grand Central. Instead, we have parking lots, open and enclosed around the area, many buildings that have seen better days, and lowrise retail strips. It should be developing as much as Hudson Yards is.

The thing with Vornado is, they can never make up their mind about anything. First they're building 15 Penn. Then they're not. Then they're building it again. And then again, maybe not. There was the Penn East tower, with a modified base of 1 Penn. Then that was scrapped. Who knows what they will do with their holdings in the area. The plan to open Penn Station to more daylight was exciting enough, but now that may go the way of everything else Vornado has touched in the area. Meanwhile, Related, Brookfield, and Tishman are moving right along, in an area further removed from transit. You won't find a better location for a tower than the Hotel Penn Site, or Vornado's other holdings in the area.


We'll see what becomes of this...



https://therealdeal.com/2018/05/01/v...self-up-again/

Steven Roth, CEO of the firm, said it’s possible Vornado will spin off a development company from its income-producing real estate. The rationale: Vornado has several expensive development projects in planning around Penn Station, and REIT investors tend to dislike the uncertainty associated with development.

Lot's of potential...