Quote:
Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11
Agreed. There is A LOT to like about this project. It's a monumental step forward for downtown. Despite the fact that it includes retail and grocery, things that he has asked for in the past he still is unhappy. I think much of it stems from a rendering of the bid that wasn't chosen. My feel is that proposal was unrealistic and would've never happened or been planned in phases.
I still won't believe this though until it breaks ground. It almost seems too good to be true! But very reputable developer, so I'm very hopeful!!
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No, I don't know enough about the losing bid to base my opinions of this project on its loss. And, yes, I complained about the lack of retail - but retail in the form of a box with 3 blank sides and one side with an entrance is not what I meant. I outlined the type of retail I think is appropriate for the site based on the site's primary use as a transit center. Like I said, an accessible grocery store is great - but, it being at a transit center doesn't really make sense when those arriving at this location are there for the purpose of commuting/transferring to other modes.
I'm sorry that my dramatics went overboard in my last post. There's of course nothing inherently wrong with a grocery store coming to downtown. But, my main point is:
1) that regardless of the potential benefit of a tenant, we should still value location and design
2) that regardless of downtown's surge - which I agree that it has reached a tipping point - downtown dwellers are still urban pioneers and sacrificing some of the conveniences of suburbia are part of that; paying a bit more for the local, small businesses that thrive in emerging downtowns when rents are still affordable and competition low is expected
3) that I don't know if Phoenix's "authentic" side has matured enough to the point that it can hold its own against national chains and yes, I am nervous a Fry's could shut down something like DeSoto that is still growing but can become a distinctly Phoenix attraction if successful
Even if you disagree, I don't know why it's impossible for most of you to see where I am coming from? Why is wanting good design and the great new small businesses to succeed a bad thing?
There are many projects going on that I think are fantastic: Proxy, Portland on the Park, ArtHAUS, the proposed Alliance complex on Roosevelt, the Foundry Hotel, Monroe HGI... why can't I voice my concerns over one project that is being built on city land in the most prime location in all of donwntown?
I truly am confused by comments like "this is too good to be true" in response to this project. This would be acceptable in the Camelback Corridor, but Urban Form was supposed to show that downtown demanded better. The apartment tower's only 'active' side - the entrance lobby - faces a dedicated private drive, which essentially functions the same as a gated complex. The tower has no interaction with its surrounding urban environment, and in fact, its orientation which shades an entire public park, shows that no thought whatsoever was given to this relationship. The rest of the site is dedicated to a monstrous garage - something I thought was pretty unanimously understood to be a source of many of downtown's worst blocks. Urban Form and the general expectation of 2015 design says parking should be wrapped, underground, or within a podium. A garage on our downtown transit hub, in the middle of major hotels, office towers, historic buildings, and ASU downtown, and adjacent to downtown's major public space, is a short-sighted use of the land that will continue to be the center of more transit lines, a growing campus, and additional office/hotel projects.
My asking for retail as at least one way to minimally improve the site was so that it would at least engage the Westin across Central and future ASU development across 1st Ave. A grocery store, which will present blank walls on every side but 1 doesn't accomplish this.
If there truly is a demand for a downtown grocery store, I think it would've been better situated further north, on the edge/just outside the core, closer to neighborhoods and where parking doesn't create design issues as it does in the core. The Circles Building, for example, would've been great for a Trader Joe's or Sprouts.
My last point is - what makes this project any different than the following, which are/were widely criticized?
1. AZ Center - provides an amenity in its AMC yet most agree it presents an awful street presence and its north face is terrible. Unlike Central Station, though, who has incredible surroundings, AZ Center was built at a time when the area surrounding it was dangerous and blighted.
2. 211 W Monroe - remember this proposal? People here were (rightfully) disgusted by the renderings which showed an office tower on Monroe with a giant parking garage behind it. Unlike Central Station, however, this project would have left room on the north side of the garage for future development, and the garages main faces were along 2nd and 3rd Avenues - much less important than Central and 1st Ave.
So, I'm sorry again for going over the top last time, but I still don't see anything positive about this project aside from the # of residents it will bring, and don't see why - at the very least - you can't at least understand where I am coming from in pointing out these flaws. I want a 400+ unit apartment tower and grocery store downtown, but I don't want them - as proposed - on this site. I think downtown is headed in a great direction, and I apologize if my posts give a different impression; but, it's the fact that there is so much growth and potential that makes me so critical when I see something like this proposed where we could've gotten something truly great.