[KB0679]

Originally Posted by edale

I've been to Charleston many times, and in fact, my parents are 2 of those Ohioans who are moving there (well, building a vacation home on Kiawah Island to be there part of the year). I've felt first hand the conservativeness as a queer, northern, liberal guy. One time I was riding my bike around and some redneck dude in a Clemson shirt came out and tried to tell me I needed to stop biking past his house or else he'd come back out and "things would get ugly". When I went down in 2016, there were Trump signs EVERYWHERE you looked. I've been to restaurants where I've seen local white people talk to the black staff as if it was the 1960s or something. Of course there was the shooting at the AME church in Charleston, but this is America and sadly that could have really taken place anywhere. :-(

I can believe your experience and yes, the metro as a whole is conservative like most Southern metros. But Charleston itself along with some of the closer-in suburban parts (and definitely most of North Charleston) is best described as moderate and as I stated, Charleston County is reliably blue. Not overwhelmingly but about a good 60% or so. As far as White people treating Black wait staff like the help, I don't think that's more of a thing in Charleston compared to anywhere else--and I'm a Black guy, native SC'er that works in Charleston. I'm certainly not claiming that it's the best place in the country for race relations because that's certainly not true but it's not really the worst either. Oh and it should be mentioned that the Mother Emanuel shooter wasn't from Charleston; he lived about 1.5-2 hours away in a rural area.

Black people weaving baskets in and of itself isn't a big deal. But the fact that they're doing it in front of and inside the former slave market is really eerie, to me at least.

It seems that White Northerners on the whole are uncomfortable with the history of slavery in the U.S. in general so to have an actual historic relic of the institution where Blacks are present *and* working can be unnerving. But I actually like the fact that such a scene serves as a jarring reminder of what and who actually built Charleston so there should be some discomfort there. At least this time around we're getting paid for our labor.

It's like the complete opposite of NOLA where it seems like there is and has been tremendous mixing of races, and where the culture of NOLA is inextricably linked to black culture. In Charleston, this does not exist- or at least I've not seen it. You have black Charleston, and you have white Charleston, and there isn't much mixing or influence between the two. There are some interesting sub-cultures, to be sure. The Gullah communities that exist there are incredibly interesting, but they exist as their own thing rather than being integrated into the larger culture of the city.

I love the architecture of old Charleston. I really enjoy the trees and local plants and animals that live there. The fact that it's right on the ocean is also pretty cool, and is a positive point of differentiation from Savannah and NOLA. But in my experience, I have never felt welcome or really accepted there, whereas when I went to NOLA, I left thinking it was an incredibly special, accepting, exciting city. I could be way off, but those are my perceptions

I do understand the appeal of NOLA as it had a different sort of history as was mentioned earlier, plus it is known for its music, revelry, and nightlife whereas Charleston is more subdued on that front. But the ironic thing is that despite a greater level of racial mixing in NOLA, it's actually more segregated than Charleston metrowide. There are certainly issues with gentrification there and poverty seems more entrenched there and historically the city has been held back by dysfunctional leadership, something Charleston hasn't had to deal with. Undoubtedly Blacks have participated in the city's cultural and civic life in New Orleans to a greater degree than Charleston, but Blacks have constituted a greater share of the population of New Orleans compared to Charleston also and there are still lots of issues lurking beneath the surface there. Charleston's biggest advantage here is having a much healthier economy that's driven by industries that Blacks already participate in and many of those companies are within reasonable proximity to Black neighborhoods.