[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Yes, I get that you doubt it. But we're already expanding the MAX system and adding streetcars. So what happens when we reach maximum capacity downtown with all these expansions? Nothing? We just give up on any additional MAX improvements?

You say it's "silly", but then why does ANY subway get built anywhere? Not because it's "cool" to have a subway (which we already have through the West Hills, BTW. So technically, we're already "cool"). It's just like you said, to increase speed, and also along with that, capacity and operational efficiencies. We're gonna need that extra capacity sooner than most people realize since we're already bumping up against that limit during rush hour now, as in today. Add Milwaukie (extended to OC), Vancouver, Tigard/Tualatin, Powell, a possible conversion of the WES corridor.... how are all of those new MAX trains, not to mention the additional trains that will be necessary on the lines we ALREADY have, going to thread their way through the constraints of the current downtown configuration? They can't. And the straw that will break the camel's back is going to be the Steel Bridge. That's what will force the issue more than all of the other logical reasons combined. Every single MAX train will need to go through the increasingly congested RQ and cross the Willamette there to get into downtown. And a new transit-only drawbridge isn't the solution there.

Look, nothing is preventing Metro and TriMet from expanding MAX and Streetcar service for the foreseeable future, but why does that make a subway less likely? If anything, it'll make a subway MORE likely the bigger the rail network becomes. Each additional line that gets built increases ridership exponentially because the system become more comprehensive and user-friendly. You can say it's too costly, or too pie-in-the-sky all you want, but it's really not. It's just one more infrastructure project in a long line of mega-infrastructure projects. So 20 years from now, I'll be here on SSP in 2033 telling you "I told you so".

The two light rail routes through downtown could each handled 4-6 lines on each of them, which is about 8-12 different lines for the city. Also, the streetcar runs on its own lines. I could see a new set of streetcar lines being built in the city either down 3rd and 4th or along some of the east and west streets.

All of this means that the city has a long way to go before the current routes through downtown are at capacity and need new ideas for downtown expansions.