[combusean]

Originally Posted by John_Vandercook

What I said has nothing to do with chain stores or your idea of proper organic growth.

My idea of proper organic growth doesn't entirely entail a Bohemian paradise of Mom and Pop's along Main St. Rather, I want to see people ON the street, but modern large scale developments, especially here, don't really do that.

The configuration of major developments across the Valley still encourage the driver's culture--driving there, easy parking, and milling about on private, pedestrian malls that turn their back onto the street and transit. No development connects--rather, you have to cross multilane thoroughfares, which people just aren't going to do unless they really want to, especially during summer rush hour.

Phoenix has been tackling this problem (haphazardly at times) in the Biltmore area as they develop a 3 mile long "pedestrian spine" that connects the west side of the 51 to the Esplanade/Fashion Park. As far as area planning strategies go, it's very unique for new development on this scale. Altho I'm impressed by the coordination and connectivity, but the entire concept leaves a disingenuous taste in my mouth. That's just my opinion, and it's largely where John and I differ on that whole sterilty thing.

It will be by far the largest concentration of entertainment values. Tempe has bars and a lake, but no professional sports venues. Downtown Phoenix has businesses, and Biltmore has shops and some bars.

I'd take the lake over professional sports venues, and I wish Tempe got the Cardinals stadium to begin with. But in its new home, that stadium was the catalyst for the entire area, and I am happy to see the end result that is Westgate/Zanjero there rather than what would have been more damn houses, even above my greedy desires for the City of Tempe. Retrospect is always nice as I've been jaded by that entire fiasco for four years.

On the topic of large scale sporting events, the Insight bowl would have never moved to Tempe from downtown Phoenix where nobody ever heard about it. I look forward to the emerging cross city rivalry and there's certainly room for both in the metro.

Really nobody has as much going as that area. Sure it may be sterile, but for the majority of population, sterile = "nice"

Ditto, mostly. There is certainly enough going on in Westgate to sustain it for generations, and I can't say that about a majority of large projects. Even a double economic downturn could throw off North Scottsdale in a matter of a decade or two--remember that new money can disappear just as quick.

As far as urban center vitality goes, people can be always counted on to do one of two things (if not both): drink and watch sports.

They've been the only things propping up downtown Phoenix for the last 15 years and downtown Tempe until the late 80's. In the case of Phoenix, they nailed the casket on the old downtown while fueling the fire for an urban renaissance unlike any other in city history.

Westgate can have this forever--and I say can--Tonopah, amongst others, might get ambitious in 2030, but I hope the Cardinals will be happy in Westgate forever. Even independent of winning games, that's how the greatest sports teams were all made--they never left home.