[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

I have a few takeaways here. First I would like to say that I agree with your architectural sensibilities, and if we can somehow incentivize craftsman-quality builds that you describe then I would love to see it. Unfortunately this doesn't really address the economic limitations of building said nicer structures, so the feasibility of getting what you describe Isn't necessarily any closer. I do understand that Core Urban does great work, so I will use that as a jumping-off point, but we cannot build the Pigott building today, tragic as it is (not without significantly deeper pockets).

The crux of the issue is crossing the gap of construction cost. What we see built are cheap structures, even by regional/national/global standards. The traditional way of building higher quality things is for real estate to become more expensive, as it is starting to do in Toronto. What I (and I think you) are interested in is how to bring that level of quality and then some without the needed real estate value, so reducing the cost to build (the structure or the beautification elements).

I like that you bring up Core Urban, because they are the ones building high-quality, timeless structures. This proves that somehow there is an economic niche of some kind, but we need insight on what that niche is and how their projects manage to pencil out. If we can crack this 'code' we can begin to tackle bigger projects of similar quality as you and I desire. Do Core Urban's projects (midrises) work because they require little digging for foundations? If so, it is possible they can avoid the groundwater issues, but this doesn't work as well for highrises. Core Urban does not have the ability to take on such projects as major developers can, so we cannot determine if the lack of quality bigger structures is due to sheer cost for Core Urban or if it doesn't fit a pro forma for any developer.

My current train of thought is to create a partnership (city or otherwise) with Core Urban. Give them more capital to build, help the partner understand what makes these projects work, and attempt to support and expand the practice. Ie, make Core Urban into a larger developer and we can foster the necessary trades to build better, and ideally drive down the cost of stone/brickwork in Hamilton, something most developers simply avoid due to cost.

Really, some of this is better for planners to solve. We can possibly incentivize buildings downtown to have a podium (every building up to floor x) that 'respects its surroundings' by requiring a historical-like facade. This way, the at-grade urban design you desire can be found, and does not require the elaborate and costly needs of building a 50s art deco skyscraper in 2022. It sidesteps the economic issue for better urban design practice, something that is sorely lacking here.

My main points are that to bring what Core Urban does to a larger scale, we need supportive industries to reduce the cost to build good architecture, willing developers, and policies to incentivize it. It is not too much to ask the city for more cohesive and architecturally respectful urban design guidelines, given we are talking about creating a better public realm. These are all kind of abstract goals however and I don't know if they are actually very realistic given how far it deviates from the contemporary development model we see today.

You bring up some good points, and we're very much on the same page.

I honestly think Liuna needs to team up with Core urban. We have seen what they can do when they are given something to work with at grade that already exists - aka the william thomas building, and then set back and build a high rise on top of that. They have the pockets, core urban has the talent for constructing beautiful buildings. That building did not have a very deep foundation so it IS possible to build high rises, esp in the core where parking should not be as big of a deal. They both seem to at least have the sensibility that to build "modern" on james st is such a pearl clutching travesty that even the city seems to understand and encourage traditional design. We could also just make it that anywhere historical podium wise in the city core urban should table - like cobalt podium imo should have REALLY been done by them - esp since they did olympia right beside it - they could have worked together - you'll notice olympias cornices are not symmetrical - one side is flat and the other winged because of that design - if they had been able to work on the whole thing they could have built it into the existing deisagn.

There is also something we suggested before - and to be fair this is how in the past a LOT of the old expensive buildings were built, and that was from donations from rich doners - usually from the city elite, or in this case it could be crowdfunded by core urban if they need deeper pockets. But I also like your idea of simply making them a bigger company to be able to tackle bigger builds. I feel core urban is the star child for traditional architecture in the city.

I feel like Core urban is a fledgling juggernaut, just starting to flex its muscles and see what it is capable of in this city. If core urban did not exist I must say my optimism for such builds in this city would be very much nonexistent - but they proved, all on their own (maybe liuna a bit too) that the interest IS there, it's just nobody is skilled enough to want to take it on - or interested in the aesthetic that much vs vranich and darko just wanting to turn over some quick bucks. Stinton had some nice looks as well for renovating existing buildings but we all know the problems behind him. So at least core urban is reliable, and have.. I would say, in their field of expertise, the MOST respect of any architectural firm in the city (them and lintack architects with which they work with). Like if they say they wanna do something, the city sometimes encourages them to go even GRANDER, like on augusta and james.

I just wish they could move faster, and take on more projects - I mean they are working at herculean speed as it is, part of me just prays they take over all the spots that might otherwise not be as .. brilliantly realized along james, like the spots beside the pigott building and where the old zellers was.

And you are right, we lack the pockets to build another pigott - but the pigott was actually the very first skyscraper to be built in hamilton, and one of the first in ontario (I know my history very well hehe) and even back then it probably required some donations, and even then it was considered one of the most beautiful buildings - an excerpt about it below:

"Built in 1928-1929 for $1,000,000, the Pigott building was the first sky-scraper in Hamilton and one of the first in Ontario. Hamilton architects Bernard and Fred Prack used Art Deco/Gothic Revival style to make this building unique. It was called the most beautiful building of Hamilton and the most interesting in the province. Pigott Construction Co. brought glass from Belgium and steel window frames from England. The exterior was decorated with tyndall limestone sheating which covered the steel skeleton. The interior was decorated with marble and fine tiles. The lobby was painted by church decorators and stained glass windows were installed."

Like that, THAT is the type of detail and pride we need where you work to make it a masterpiece - not just an ikea frame.

But yes I think we are all on the same page - we need to elevate core urban more to be able to do more in this city - OR bring more architectural firms like them in - if they designed every single podium around historic areas of the city to match I would be PERFECTLY happy - they could build a duplo block of 80 stories above that for all I care - skyscraper people are happy - tall build people are happy, and you and I are happy. Mostly for me it's not the towers per say I am blegh about - there is only so much you can do around balconies - it's the podiums, or the first 1-6 floors- which are often sorely lacking.