Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago
I dont begrudge anyone for having careers or finding success in life (although I tend to when the success is the result of predatory or economically exploitative actions). Im also not really interested in anecdotal stories of bootstraps and gumption by top 5%'ers in this country, as if timing and luck dont play equal roles. If you're at that level guess what, statistically nearly everyone you pass on the street is worse off than you are, and your story is not somehow the norm. We only tend to hear from the winners in our economic system, and as a result it distorts the way people perceive the way the system really works, or the way the odds are actually stacked. Its pure propaganda fed to the working class to keep them docile and in-line because "one day this could be you!" We're not hearing from the losers or the people who had their only homes foreclosed on during the financial crisis (forget owning investments) just so that other people could swoop in and ride massive profits a decade later. Where is their voice represented in all of this? Wheres the voice of the people who came from similar circumstances as your own and never got out? Its disingenuous of you to say "most people would not work as hard as I work" when there is a huge working/poverty class in our country that puts in insanely grueling hours at multiple jobs and sacrifices to their health simply to put food on the table. Who have seen their earnings hold stagnant for decades and their purchasing power drop, while at the same time the social safety net is systematically dismantled by the rich and powerful (and who have the opportunity to re-write the rules to favor themselves) who then have the audacity to tell them "you just need try harder". Does falling ass backwards into some rental properties that just so happened to hugely appreciate at the time you owned them, give a person the right to swagger through some of the poorest neighborhoods of the city in a leisure suit and a swinging dick acting like they hold all the answers regarding success in this country because they are fortunate enough to be landowners? Is that "contribution" to society somehow greater than that of people in countless other lines of work making infinitesimally less? Is a neighborhood the physical buildings themselves, or the people who inhabit them? Because I see a genuine lack of concern or empathy regarding the people for whom "the dream" never materializes. A shred of humbleness and self awareness dosent hurt but I guess a person who dosent possess it cant really display it.
But yea, dang, if only the family making minimum wage could have just scooped up that investment property for 650k, maybe everything would be different in their lives.
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So I have him figured out, he doesn't have a chip on his shoulders, he's just one of those kids who was told there was a boogeyman under his bed who never had the gumption or bothered to actually get out of bed and look underneath to see if there was actually something there.
Here's the deal, you obviously haven't tried it. You haven't tried to make money buying property on a low income, you don't know what it's like. I know you don't want anecdotes, but just on one block in Little Village I know half a dozen people who DID it. Where do you think I came from myself? Do you think daddy just wrote me a six figure check to play with?
No, I started off with $50k in student loan debt, a $38k/year job (which I was lucky to even have since it was 2010), and saved up my first $5,000 which I used as a downpayment on a $135k two flat just outside of Logan Square. I busted ass 40 hours a week at my job and worked 30 or 40 more hours a week renovating my apartments until 1 or 2 AM every night. Yeah, I got lucky with timing, but I also had the balls to actually jump in when everyone else was running away as fast as they could. Yeah I got lucky getting a job right away, but I also found a job in college before shit hit the fan and busted ass working 20-30+ hours a week the entire time I was in college so I actually had some experience. Yeah I happened to know a bit about real estate, but I got my brokers license while I was still in school and made my interest in RE my passion.
Just on my block in Little Village there's myself, who started on that block with a 6 flat I literally got for free from a bank (again, not screwing anyone here except the bank who had already taken it back from a negligent wannabe developer who started a gut rehab to turn a 6 flat into an illegal 10 flat with no permits) by putting my head on the demo court chopping block, my neighbor who grew up at 21st and Damen (and by the way his Mexican immigrant dad bought the 5 unit that he grew up in and was very successful with it himself despite no education and empty pockets upon arrival here) who owns two two flats on the block that he managed to buy for $30k and $50k on a bank teller's wage, and another neighbor who is older, but doesn't speak a word of English and has managed to accumulate 9 rental properties and spent the money on a 10th property which is a nice house in Oak Park that he moved his family to for the good schools.
That's one block, three different people from different backgrounds who all pulled off what you say is impossible, starting with nothing but low wage jobs and building up to multiple rental properties. An immigrant, a second generation American, and a multi generational American. It's not impossible, it's only impossible if you don't want to try. In fact, you say we aren't aware of our luck or the help we get, but guess what, I'm very aware that I couldn't have done what I did without a boost from an FHA loan, but guess what, that same boost is available to literally everyone here. The only difference is that I decided to take that boost and not to be afraid in 2010 and Via apparently didn't.
Finally, you go on and on about people taking advantage of others. Who was taken advantage of? These homes were already lost to the bank? What did I have to do with that? I just came along and cleaned up the mess. It's ironic that you decry the average family not being able to afford to pick up a $650k 24 unit building, but have you any idea how deranged that is? That's why the last mess happened, a lot of people were able to buy stuff that they couldn't afford or shouldn't have been allowed to own. If a poor family on a minimum wage just jumped in and bought a 24 unit building would you really be surprised if they lost it a few years later? No, you don't just jump in like that, you need to start small. That 24 unit building was $27k/unit. That means a 2 or 3 flat, maybe even a 4 flat, could have been had for less than $100k. With an FHA loan that means a downpayment of less than $5k. Oh and you can count the income from the building you are buying as your own on an FHA loan so don't tell me "they won't qualify". All you need is W2 income and a semi decent credit score (540+). You don't start out buying 24 unit buildings, that's absurd and, frankly, fucking stupid. The fact that you are trying to use that as some sort of knock against TUP just shows that you are one of the boneheads who pushed for the lax regulations and subsidies that led to the crash. It's probably a good thing you aren't in this business yourself because who knows what trouble you would have gotten yourself into by now with that line of thinking.