Quote:
Originally Posted by ajldub
Who really cares about heritage? Who really cares about gridlock? You are lost. Go back to your room and hang some posters of Manhattan on your wall, because that's about as much thought as you are putting into your case.
|
I see you are clearly capable of responding to my arguments as an adult.
Now wait for it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radster
ajldub, what are you going on about here???? Jamaican's post made a lot of sense actually, he made some good, valid points to back up his view.
|
Woohoo! Validation! Thanks Radster. Good to know someone here can pause and reflect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajldub
I'm talking about traffic concerns and heritage concerns being two massive considerations in the convent development. To suggest nobody really cares about either is not realistic at all.
Heritage Ottawa was founded in the 70's after the Rideau Street convent was destroyed for a strip mall, which is now Claridge Plaza. Lots of people care about this stuff.
|
Let me rephrase; I'm not saying that nobody cares, simply that this case in particular(Sisters site) shouldn't be such an issue since it was already hidden from the public eye. Preserving our heritage is great. I'd love to see all the victorian era homes, places likes Barrymore's and such preserved in this city but at the same time I have a hard time caring about a heritage building already hidden from the public eye in a proposal that will keep the heritage part AND provide density to a neighbourhood that calls for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen j
All the talk about traffic gridlock is a smokescreen or misdirection.
If the parts of Ottawa inside the Greenbelt that have been designated for intensification and are now either underdeveloped or vacant were built out at only 4-6 storeys, the existing transportation infrastructure would still be strained. Wellington/Richmond, for example, is currently a great big gap-toothed smile with significant holes in the streetwall. So, filling in all those gaps with development well within current zoning limits is still going to lead to gridlock IF EVERYONE CONTINUES TO DRIVE.
Mille Sabords brought this up in the Soeurs de la Visitation thread. Gridlock is actually a good thing, as it forces people onto transit/bikes/their feet and encourages those using the neighbourhood as a commuter throughway to rethink their route and/or their vehicle choice. Toronto City council seemed to understand this back in the late 60s/early 70s when they decided to stop building roads into downtown while similtaneously increasing the amount of development in the central area. They knew people would be redirected from private to public transit.
The media release from the community association tried to make the gridlock argument, but did so ineffectively because of the false logic built into their reasoning. What better place than next to a transit station for high-density intensification? I suspect concerns with transportation were not at the top of their real concerns with the SOHO proposal.
I don't discount the fact that someone might not want a 24-storey tower in close proximity to their now pricy early 20th-century single-detached dwelling in a central neighbourhood, or a block of condos wrapping around a heritage building. Those are not gridlock concerns, those are arguments of a different nature. And regarding those other arguments, ajldub, I agree with you on several points.
|
Very well said, dude.
That's essentially the point I wanted to get across to ajldub, but you said it better than I ever could have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajldub
I have a hard time believing gridlock is a good thing for any reason. Gridlock is really just a symptom of inadequate planning.
|
It's not good, but it's a fundamental part of large and growing cities. It's a symptom of the urban fabric; not necessarily inadequate planning although inadequate planning doesn't help...
Quick question though; am I to assume that you believe all the traffic woes of the world could be resolved with what amounts to near-perfect planning?