View Single Post
  #628  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2010, 5:29 AM
plinko's Avatar
plinko plinko is offline
them bones
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Barbara adjacent
Posts: 7,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxPavilion View Post
The process for separating hydrogen elements from natural bonds is very energy intensive. The efficiency in the natural gas > hydrogen > fuel cell > electricity cycle is fairly low, typically around 35-45% (about the same as coal and natural gas fired plants); yes you can increase that by using the heat byproduct generated in a variety of ways but it's not the most optimal (taking into consideration limited use and transportation losses). Ultimately it is a substitution of one finite fuel for another.

Mind you, I'm not saying it isn't an improvement (mainly because it's less polluting) however it's not a very big one.

I mentioned mobile fuel cells because they are currently a better alternative to batteries in terms of energy storage and output to size.
Actually the efficiencies are much more than that based on the fact that you wouldn't put in a fuel cell at a building unless you used the heat byproduct ONSITE. At a house you use it for heating the pool and hot water uses. In a skyscraper, it could be easily used to satisfy any hot water need and also to satisfy a substantial portion of the heating loads of the building. There is no transportation loss.

Take the energy generated and add a flow battery of some type to store any extra energy and you can vastly increase the efficiency even more.

But yes, it does increase the natural gas loads substantially (but it's much cheaper).
__________________
Even if you are 1 in a million, there are still 8,000 people just like you...