[llamaorama]

Sorry I got confused and should've read the thread more carefully

I wasn't saying it was urban, just that even though it is suburban that doesn't mean it totally sucks like some centex development halfway to Elgin. Your right though, it was a total missed opportunity for something better.

Off-topic, but could someone explain the part about alleys being a big deal? I know they are necessary on busy roads, past a certain density, or with attached housing, but I know a lot of people don't particularly like them and aside from aesthetics do they really serve a needed functional purpose in these new urbanist developments?