Developer pitches idea for smaller stadium
 

Developer pitches idea for smaller stadium
Says Vancouver doesn't need a massive BC Place

A Vancouver developer wants to knock down BC Place Stadium and use part of the site for new condos.

But event planners say demolishing the 24-year-old stadium would hurt the city's chance to capitalize on increased convention business as the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre begins to attract larger events in anticipation of its expansion site's opening in 2009.

"We would like to look at moving the stadium," says David Negrin, vice-president of development for Concord Pacific. "Our vision is to create a smaller stadium, because we don't need 80,000 (seats.)" Negrin says Concord Pacific would like to acquire part of the BC Place land from the province and see a new, smaller stadium built on the remainder of the property. Concord is preparing to develop two parcels of land that it already owns near the stadium.

Provincially owned BC Place recently had its roof repaired and reinflated after it was torn in a snowstorm, holds about 60,000 seats. Its future has been a hot topic of public debate since one of the roof's panels flapped like a sheet in the wind the first Friday morning in January.

The stadium is slated to be the site of 2010 Winter Olympic opening and closing ceremonies as well as nightly medal presentations. It also serves as the home of the B.C. Lions of the Canadian Football League and hosts tradeshows, corporate and community group meetings, concerts, high-school football games, minor soccer tournaments and other events.

The facility stages an average of 220 events per year, many of which are repeat annual activities. BC Place management has already booked some events for 2011 and beyond.

Concord Pacific, which has developed much of the False Creek area following Expo '86, is also building four condo towers near the stadium. That project includes a Costco store, which has already opened.

Negrin says Concord has not developed any specific plans for BC Place. However, an area business owner, who requests anonymity, says he has seen blueprints of a proposed Concord Pacific development on stadium land.

"There was a plan we had five years ago down in (what's) called 6C area - a park down there," says Negrin. "But that was over seven years ago. We've done nothing (new.)" He says the proposed smaller sports venue should be built on part of the BC Place rather than be moved elsewhere.

"I believe you take Robson Street right down to the water (False Creek), and on the east side (of BC Place), you build a stadium, like a 30,000(-seat) outdoor stadium," says Negrin. "It would take care of soccer, it would take care of football, and (event) venues, and then the other side is for developers to develop. Then, that way, it makes it affordable to (develop.)" Some estimates have pegged the value of the BC Place land at $400 million. But Negrin says a new stadium should be built near the present dome's location.

"I don't think we should be moving our sports district outside of the downtown core, because GM Place (home of the Vancouver Canucks of the National Hockey League) is there right now, there's the theatres all down there - the Ford Theatre and everything," says Negrin. "You also have BC Place. That's just a personal opinion."

The Vancouver Whitecaps soccer club, which operates men's and women's professional teams, is also proposing to build a 15,000-seat stadium along the downtown waterfront in Burrard Inlet adjacent to Gastown.

"I don't believe a stadium should be down in Gastown," says Negrin, stressing that is his own - and not the company's - view. "I think that's the wrong place. That's waterfront property. Leave that for development."

He says the Lions and Whitecaps should collaborate on a new facility that they could both use, even if that means holding a soccer game for 10,000 people in a 30,000-seat facility.

"Why build two stadiums? I think that's foolish," says Negrin.

But the Lions, who are interested in managing BC Place if the province doesn't want to, have declined to get involved with the Whitecaps.

Lions president and general manager Bob Ackles contends the proposed soccer stadium is too small for the football team's purposes.

While Concord Pacific would like to demolish BC Place, event planners say the stadium can expand the city's international-meetings market even further after the convention centre expansion is complete.

Barbara Maple, president and CEO of the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre (VCEC) declines to discuss Concord Pacific's desire to tear down BC Place, saying it's not her issue to talk about.

But when asked if she would like BC Place to retain its current size, she replies: "It's worked well for us - yeah."

Maple says BC Place has enabled VCEC to offer another event venue to its clients. The VCEC has used BC Place for bigger banquets, parts of events that couldn't fit, or when they were looking for an off-site venue.

Both BC Place and the convention centre are operated by BC Pavilion Corp. But the two venues have separate management teams.

Maple indicates BC Place is needed to help grow Vancouver's convention market now that the convention centre expansion site has started to attract larger international meetings.

"It's not about sharing the business or trying to keep the same business - we're trying to grow the market for Vancouver and British Columbia, so that all of us get a bigger market share," says Maple.

In a speech during an invitation-only dinner for meeting planners and other guests, Maple says the VCEC has contracted for 50 events for 2008 and beyond, including 27 at the expansion site. All of the booked events have an economic impact of $874 million.

In an interview with Business Edge, she says the early bookings prove that the provincial and federal governments made the right decision in funding the expansion, which has had to contend with rapidly rising construction costs.

Maple says the response of the market has been positive. But the convention centre still has to grapple with issues including new passport rules for U.S. travellers and taxes.

Sarah Lowis, president of North Vancouver-based Sea to Sky Meeting Management, says there's no doubt about what the demolition of BC Place would mean to the convention market.

"It'll be a loss," says Lowis.

She says BC Place suits the "meetings of a bigger scope" which VCEC management and Tourism Vancouver are trying to attract. Her company is organizing the World Congress of Physical Therapists at BC Place, which is expected to attract 3,000-4,000 people, in June.

"The current (VCEC) venue cannot accommodate it," says Lowis. "So it was a natural that we had to go to BC (Place) Stadium."

The stadium will still be needed for conventions once the convention centre's expansion site, which will serve as the Olympic broadcast centre, is open, she adds.

"I can still see (BC Place) serving its purpose when the bigger conventions come, because we'll soon outgrow the expanded facility," says Lowis.

http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/14636.cfm

I don't understand the logic in demolishing BC Place. It's like saying False Creek is a waste of space and should be filled in so more condos can be put up. It just seems they only know what's best for their bank accounts.

"That's waterfront property. Leave that for development."
<<< How is a new stadium not development? It's a mystery to me.

"He says the Lions and Whitecaps should collaborate on a new facility that they could both use, even if that means holding a soccer game for 10,000 people in a 30,000-seat facility."
<<< What a dork. I guess he has never talked to anyone from the Lions or Whitecaps.

"Why build two stadiums? I think that's foolish," says Negrin."
<<< Well yea. Keep BC Place.

o_o yea.

The Lions need a stadium of between 35,000-45,000 seats and expandable to 50,000 to host the Grey Cup.

While the Whitecaps don't want such a large cavernous facility, as they won't attract that type of crowds. Also, the 'Caps have plans to expand their team into the MLS League....and the MLS requires teams to have their own stadiums.

and i thought the buzz about the new waterfront stadium for them was to help Canada's efforts in a World Cup bid in 2018...MLS makes sence...they need that kinda exposure...

when is beckham coming? apparently there will be an exhibition game with the whitecaps in vancouver - they mentioned it on the radio the other day

The only thing I've heard is that the Whitecaps organization might be in "discussions" with the LA Galaxy about a possible game at BC Place. Nothing confirmed as far as I know.

Yeah he did come across as a dork didn't he? Note to Concord Pacific: you don't own all of downtown Vancouver (yet).

But unfortunately he does have a point - BC Place has supposedly reached, or is near to, the end of its lifespan.

BC Lions
 

what happens if the BC Lions come forward and say they don't have the money for a new Stadium and will cease to exist if BC Place is torn down?

you think they'll rip down the Stadium and wipe out the BC Lions; 53 years of tradition down the toilet?

you think the CFL can survive without a team on the west coast? NO!

not so fast about ripping down the stadium; the Lions haven't spoken yet

good ol Concord...

Because if there is anything that city needs more of, it's condos! :tup:

Hey, lets tear down Bentall place and build........ CONDOS!!

And then we can tear down the provincial courts and build..... CONDOS!!!!


And then we'll put condos in....... STANLEY PARK!!!!

YAY!! CONDOS!!!!

:ahhh:

It's really just the roof that is near the end of it's lifespan. The structure of the building can live on for many more decades. It's made of concrete for bloody sakes. The roof gets torn and developers think it's an excuse to take the whole place (no pun intended) down.

i doubt that will happen. statistically speaking, the Lion's are in a good spot as far as negotiating goes:

they've proven they can win games, and a winning team puts fans in the stands more then anything. doesn't help that they have Wally Buono coaching them either.

they only reason they moved from Empire Stadium is because BC Place was built for Expo 86.

I couldn't see them moving out anytime soon. Especially since the stadium had been structurally cleared until 2020(??).

Debating B.C. Place’s future Where should the next stadium go?

By Jeff Nagel
Black Press
Feb 10 2007

Sites as far away as Surrey are being raised as the possible future home for a new Greater Vancouver stadium if B.C. Place is demolished after the 2010 Winter Olympics.

And while the City of Vancouver is keenly interested in keeping the stadium, Tourism and Sport Minister Stan Hagen says all options will be considered.

“There are other possibilities probably tied fairly closely to transit, which could take it out to Coquitlam or could take it out to Surrey, or to Richmond or Burnaby,” Hagen said in an interview. “Any of the sites served by rapid transit.”

The talk was touched off after the stadium’s roof deflated in early January.

Soon after, condo marketer Bob Rennie said the aging stadium might not be the best use of scarce downtown land.

“Does a football stadium need to be in elitist space or could it spread out to serve more of the Greater Vancouver region?”

Surrounded by the explosive condo tower redevelopment of the former Expo lands around False Creek, B.C. Place would command top dollar if the stadium was demolished, conceivably helping finance a replacement.

Built by the province for $123 million in 1983 on vacant former industrial land, Rennie estimates the land would fetch at least $250 million today.

Estimates to build a replacement run around $200 to $250 million, Hagen said, but noted discussions so far have centred on a smaller stadium of around 40,000 seats.

Government subsidies to run 60,000-seat B.C. Place are forecast to rise to more than $6 million per year. And much bigger bills may soon loom as the time nears for major renovations such as a roof replacement.

Keeping the facility and fixing it is an option, Hagen said. But he rules out adding a retractable roof.

“By the time you retrofit you could probably build a new stadium,” he said.

Rennie says one alternative is for the province to work with the Vancouver Whitecaps—who propose a new soccer stadium on the downtown waterfront—to expand that project using proceeds from B.C. Place. The Whitecaps, however, have yet to win over city planners and Gastown residents.

“Or you sit down with Derek Corrigan and council in Burnaby and look at Swangard Stadium,” Rennie said. “Swangard has SkyTrain access.”

Richmond has the Garden City lands, a site which was once eyed for a stadium during Richmond’s previous longshot bids for the Commonwealth Games.

However, that vacant land is an unlikely site for a stadium, as the Agricultural Land Commission turned down a request to remove the parcel from the Agricultural Land Reserve last year.

Good transit is critical wherever a new stadium eventually goes, says ex-Vancouver Coun. Gordon Price, who heads Simon Fraser University’s City program.

He said rapid growth south of the Fraser means there’s a good case the next major facility should go “somewhere toward the centre of the region,” rather than downtown.

A site near the Scott Road SkyTrain station in Surrey would work well, he said.

“I’ve got no complaint if I can get there easily on SkyTrain,” Price said. “You want it right on top of transit and you want it to be in a central place.”

There have already been attempts to get stadium builders to look outside Vancouver.

City councils in Surrey and Coquitlam tried but failed a year ago to convince the Whitecaps to build a new 15,000-seat soccer stadium in their cities. They argued SkyTrain lines run in both directions and can as easily carry Vancouverites out to events as transport suburbanites to downtown.

But team owners resisted—business executives who buy season tickets prefer a downtown site even if most fans live elsewhere.

The idea of a new site has fired debate among B.C. Lions fans on the online forum lionbackers.com.

“Let’s build a stadium in Surrey for the Leos,” says one post.

Others aren’t convinced, arguing downtown offers more restaurants, entertainment and ambience for patrons before and after events.

“They would certainly be reversing a North American trend toward building downtown,” one post says. “Suburban stadiums are so ’60s.”

Another fan says Vancouverites who don’t go past Main Street “unless a tsunami warning is issued” need to realize Greater Vancouver is turning into “Greater Surrey.”

Rennie says he doubts a site as far as Surrey is a good idea.

“My gut says we need a larger facility closer to town,” he said. “For those larger events when the Pope and the Queen come to town.”

With the dome now re-inflated, there’s no rush and no sign the demise of Vancouver’s signature stadium is imminent.

Bookings are still being taken for B.C. Place events in 2012.

Hagen says he has given Pavco, the Crown corporation that runs the stadium, no firm deadline to decide its future.

A sale to the private sector—which could either renovate or rip it down—is another option, he said, noting the Lions owners are interested in at least operating and possibly buying the building.

Some sort of major facility would be needed if B.C. Place did come down, Hagen said.

A replacement could have a range of private sector involvement, he said, along with other potential partners.

“If Surrey said ‘We’re prepared to build a stadium’, we’d have to look at that,” he said. “We’re ready and willing to look at all of the possibilities.”




i couldn't help but laugh while reading the article. Swangard Stadium??? Garden City???? Any SkyTrain location?????????

LOL! Swangaurd would be a serious step in the wrong direction for the Lions...even if it was only for a year.

you might as well move the team to freakin Chilliwack for godsakes!

they should have kept empire statdium in at least some capacity

What about off of Clarke and 2nd ish....down in that current industrial area?

I found these two bits interesting. Are they a sign of things to come? Will Surrey be considered more and more as a place for large metro-wide facilities to be placed? Will metro planning become more and more focussed on Surrey as a central hub of the region? Will this eventually give rise to "downtown" Surrey and strengthen Surrey's position as the second big city in the region? Will the GVRD eventually become a "twin city" of sorts? I'm a bit off topic perhaps but it is interesting to consider. Back on topic, I personally see BC Place staying put for quite awhile longer.


Yes because visits from the Pope and Queen alone are frequent enough to justify building a multi hundred million dollar stadium. It appears Rennie is a real champion of truthiness.

I don't think the City of Burnaby would like the idea either... I think they've capped the capacity at around 6000. Most of the parking in the area is along neighborhood streets right across Boundary Rd or in Metrotown mall, which is a fair walk. Besides, if Swangard would have been allowed to expand, then the Whitecaps would have stuck around and done that already.

Projections forecast that Surrey's Population will take over that of Vancouver in some years - not sure but in the coming decades - Vancouver basically has no room to build and sprawl excpet to go up

Surrey in area is much bigger and can keep sprawling for years to come so it can accomodate a larger population

I think a second city in the region would be great - something south of the fraser for sure - as that area continues to grow and be the place where the "real" people live and invest - who attend sporting events concerts etc. would like a venue

If its true that downtown is being bought by investors from out of town - they are not likely to support the various local teams or attend events and concerts as they have no attachment to the city other than their investment

B.C. Statistics says it won't happen for at least 30 years: http://www2.jurock.com/areainfo/population.asp