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SLC Projects Feb 18, 2010 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMTower (Post 4706037)
I'd like to see a grid built there for starters.

:previous:
Not every city is going to have the same kind of grid like Salt Lake City. Sure I would like to see more of a grid in Sandy, but even if Sandy starts redeveloping their streets and setting up their own grid, it's not going to be anywhere near what SLC has. That boat has sailed away. Sandy might get a few blocks with the area around city hall. But not every highrise on this planet is set on square city blocks.

arkhitektor Feb 18, 2010 6:26 PM

If an experienced developer put forth a plan for a town center in Sandy, I would take it seriously. The problem is that these are completely unrealistic, hair-brained ideas that just aren't feasible. This latest proposal isn't even from a developer at all, he's just an architect with no funding, no experience, and, other than saying that he'll move his own office and family into the project, no proof that there is demand for any of it at all. The only reason that this is being considered at all is the fact that Sandy's leaders will throw their full support behind just about anything that comes their way, whether it will work or not.

Future Mayor Feb 18, 2010 6:28 PM

Transportation infrastructure is my only issue with Sandy Developing into a more Urban setting. I'm all for Sandy becoming more dense and Urban but I just wonder what type of transportation impact study has been done for the project. I would venture to guess that 106th S is already near a failing status with the amount of traffic that uses that interchange and the intersection at State and 106th, I realize that 114th will do a lot to alleviate a good deal of that traffic, but in reality there is one main way to access the meridian. State Street and 100th South, from either 106th or 90th, and an unrealistic walk from trax. It could be accessed from the West if people are willing to travel that direction off the interchange, but that is still at 100th S.

I really see huge potential for the future of Sandy as a more urban place, but not how it is currently configured. There needs to be a grid system created to access the meridian/city hall area, but the most logical and likely place for an additional connector is directly through the mall. Even if it's not a "Grid" system like we are used to seeing in Salt Lake City, it needs MORE ACCESS besides 100th South. In 20-40 years, once South Towne Center has run it's course it needs to be razed and developed into a more typical urban grid pattern or simply more access.

Future Mayor Feb 18, 2010 7:09 PM

Here is pretty much a map of major and minor access to Downtown Sandy and The Meridian as it is today.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/...4ac64511_o.jpg

Once South Towne gets to the point where it needs to be redeveloped something like this could be a possibility. A new street system gives greater access from several access points. A street car line could be incorporated to connect downtown Sandy with Trax and FrontRunner, and would also serve potential office and retail on the West side of I-15

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/...82f944e7_o.jpg

When viewed with the Auto Mall and 114th South, it would provide a much better system to access the area. (not to the same scale) (114th south as the yellow line at the bottom of the image)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/...57e2d3e6_o.jpg

cololi Feb 18, 2010 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC Projects (Post 4706081)
:previous:
Not every city is going to have the same kind of grid like Salt Lake City. Sure I would like to see more of a grid in Sandy, but even if Sandy starts redeveloping their streets and setting up their own grid, it's not going to be anywhere near what SLC has. That boat has sailed away. Sandy might get a few blocks with the area around city hall. But not every highrise on this planet is set on square city blocks.

If you don't build a street network as part of a project like this than it is sprawl, no matter how tall it is or how mixed the uses are.

The higher the number of connections, the quality of the connections, and the functionality of the connections are the number one priority in addressing sprawl. Any way you look at it, suburbs need a fine grain grid to address sprawl.

The mall is the number one reason why the street grid in that area is nonexistent. When it goes, you could get a great street network, less parking lots, more desirable retail space, functional and vibrant mixed-use and build in more livability into the project that could actually create a real downtown. Until that happens, Sandy will continue to contribute to the sprawl in the valley. It isn't rocket science, and it seems Sandy has some deep pockets, they should focus on someting that will build long term value to the community and improve the quality of life for the residents and business located in Sandy. and not just create a twenty story building that is pretty far from any reasonable auto access, pedestrian access and transit access.

SLC Projects Feb 18, 2010 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cololi (Post 4706261)

It isn't rocket science, and it seems Sandy has some deep pockets, they should focus on someting that will build long term value to the community and improve the quality of life for the residents and business located in Sandy. and not just create a twenty story building that is pretty far from any reasonable auto access, pedestrian access and transit access.

:previous:
I like how we all talk as if Sandy City and their leaders don't have any plans for the future with their roads/streets. For all we know Sandy City leaders, UDOT, and maybe even UTA are all working together for a long term plan for the city's grid. Just because we don't know of any plans doesn't really mean there's nothing in the works.
I do agree with the mall. I really like the layout of what Future Mayor draw up. I do agree that the mall does stand in the way of what "Downtown Sandy" could really become.
Another idea that I have had for awhile now is to have a streetcar line run from the trax stop up by the high school. Run it down 10000 South and have it run to the Frontrunner line just west of I-15. I'm not sure where the South Jordan Frontrunner station is, but I think it's around that area. Or at least I hope it is.

SLC Projects Feb 18, 2010 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkhitektor (Post 4706088)
If an experienced developer put forth a plan for a town center in Sandy, I would take it seriously. The problem is that these are completely unrealistic, hair-brained ideas that just aren't feasible. This latest proposal isn't even from a developer at all, he's just an architect with no funding, no experience, and, other than saying that he'll move his own office and family into the project, no proof that there is demand for any of it at all. The only reason that this is being considered at all is the fact that Sandy's leaders will throw their full support behind just about anything that comes their way, whether it will work or not.

:previous:
All developers, architect, designers, whatever have to start from somewhere. Sure maybe his guy doesn't have a big portfolio, but I say go for it. I always give people credit for dreaming big.
Also it's not only the developer who plans on moving his business or move to the 12-story building.

"Platt said he has potential buyers or tenants for 70 percent of the building. Construction could start in April or May, he said."

Sounds to me there is alot of demand. :tup:

Future Mayor Feb 18, 2010 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC Projects (Post 4706392)
Another idea that I have had for awhile now is to have a streetcar line run from the trax stop up by the high school. Run it down 10000 South and have it run to the Frontrunner line just west of I-15. I'm not sure where the South Jordan Frontrunner station is, but I think it's around that area. Or at least I hope it is.

That is what my smaller blue line is. It creates a loop that connects Trax, to FrontRunner through downtown and back to trax.

cololi Feb 18, 2010 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC Projects (Post 4706392)
:previous:
I like how we all talk as if Sandy City and their leaders don't have any plans for the future with their roads/streets. For all we know Sandy City leaders, UDOT, and maybe even UTA are all working together for a long term plan for the city's grid. Just because we don't know of any plans doesn't really mean there's nothing in the works.

I suggest you look at their master plan for their "downtown". It illustrates their longterm plan for the area, including mobility. South of their City Hall, guess how many proposed streets they show? One. That is it. The rest of the plan uses existing parking lot drive aisles to get around. That will not work for the type of development they want. I do not know anyone who thinks traffic in that area is acceptable. If their entire downtown plan became reality, if I remember right, adds tens of thousands of daily trips in the area. Yet one street is all they show. That is a complete disregard for the overall livability of their city, the survivability of the businesses, and a complete failure at downtown planning.


if they are updating that plan (adopted in 2002), I do not know.

scottharding Feb 18, 2010 11:08 PM

The Meridian is a much more feasible concept for Sandy. It's much less of a fantasy than the Procenium, but I'm with those who say until Sandy gets real about infrastructure, this will still be a fantasy. Maybe you're right Projects, maybe Sandy has a game plan. Based on their history of mammothly stupid ideas, I wouldn't bank on it.
But hopefully they have or will come around. It's good that they want to build up an urban core, and this new proposal is more realistic, but they've gotta realize there's more to building a core than building a tall office park with a restaurant.

UTvision Feb 19, 2010 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottharding (Post 4706658)
The Meridian is a much more feasible concept for Sandy. It's much less of a fantasy than the Procenium, but I'm with those who say until Sandy gets real about infrastructure, this will still be a fantasy. Maybe you're right Projects, maybe Sandy has a game plan. Based on their history of mammothly stupid ideas, I wouldn't bank on it.
But hopefully they have or will come around. It's good that they want to build up an urban core, and this new proposal is more realistic, but they've gotta realize there's more to building a core than building a tall office park with a restaurant.

I don't really see this happening either. The original property owners forclosed, Sandy purchased the property, the original architect came up with a concept, and now Sandy may sell him a portion of the land for one building. The new plan also includes an aquarium that may not be "financially possible" according to the City of Sandy.

I am not against Sandy building tall buildings or aquariums, I just wish they would have solid plans with actual developers that were feasible before announcing this will be built.

UTPlanner Feb 19, 2010 5:34 PM

Unfortunately, announcements for buildings and developments that never come into fruition happen all the time. I can specifically think of projects in SLC and plenty of other large US cities that were announced but are nowhere to be found on the radar.

I don't have a real strong opinion about the new Sandy proposal. However, I do think that there are those on this forum that would despise and rant about anything that Sandy proposes. Thus I can't give some of the opinions expressed any real credit. I wonder if some hate this project or just hate the city of Sandy.

I do respect the city leaders of Sandy for wanting to create a better city. This will all take some time. Sandy isn't a terrible place, traffic is a mess, as it is in a number of places in the valley. But mass transit generally will not be built until there is a demand. Without traffic there really isn't a demand because it would be easier to just drive. I am in that area a lot because I'm a season ticket holder for the Real Salt Lake. As a planner I think it's exciting to look at the area and envision what it could become not just rant disparagingly.

I don't love The Meridian but I think it's important for city leaders to be looking towards the future. Perhaps this development will help spur some real change in the transportation network.

or perhaps I'm just an eternal optimist.

SLC Projects Feb 19, 2010 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cololi (Post 4706515)
I suggest you look at their master plan for their "downtown". It illustrates their longterm plan for the area, including mobility. South of their City Hall, guess how many proposed streets they show? One. That is it. The rest of the plan uses existing parking lot drive aisles to get around. That will not work for the type of development they want. I do not know anyone who thinks traffic in that area is acceptable. If their entire downtown plan became reality, if I remember right, adds tens of thousands of daily trips in the area. Yet one street is all they show. That is a complete disregard for the overall livability of their city, the survivability of the businesses, and a complete failure at downtown planning.


if they are updating that plan (adopted in 2002), I do not know.

:previous:
I've seen one of the city's master plan, it might of been that one. However their master plan is already out of date since their plans didn't include a Soccer Stadium and a aquarium at the time. You said it was adopted in 2002, but the Stadium came in 2007 and the aquarium ( that was at first going to stay downtown SLC ) moved to Sandy 2005 or 2006. It wouldn't surprise me to see Sandy City update their mater plan of their downtown that will better accommodate their facilities. For starters the city really needs to build some kind of a parking garage that will serve both the Stadium and the Expo Center. Next the city should build a sky bridge/cross walk the goes over State Street that will go from the Jordan Commons to the Stadium. ( Not sure if you ever been around that part of state street after a RSL game. People just run across state. As for the City Hall area there needs to be more roads that can break down the big parking lots or blocks. Then again I think there really needs to be a street car line going down 10000 South.
I do believe that over all Sandy is on the right track. But it isn't all going to happen over night. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will Sandy. :haha: Just give them time.

delts145 Feb 20, 2010 2:11 PM

Former city planning commissioners rail against Holladay Village

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...d-against.html

HOLLADAY — Two former planning commissioners are waging war against Holladay Village Center, saying the planned retail center and apartment complex are contrary to the will of the people...

.

delts145 Feb 20, 2010 2:18 PM

Snowbird step closer to joining Sandy

Annexation » Resort grows increasingly dissatisfied with Salt Lake County.

Wanted: A government that cares.

That's what Snowbird says it has lost in recent years as its relationship with Salt Lake County has chilled. The ski resort now wants the power to annex into its down-the-canyon neighbor, Sandy.


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...~1_GALLERY.gif

The Utah Senate Revenue and Taxation Committee approved a bill Friday that would allow the Little Cottonwood Canyon resort to become part of Sandy since their boundaries are separated only by federal lands.

"Fundamentally, a self-determination issue ought to prevail," said Sen. Wayne Niederhauser, R-Sandy.

Snowbird General Manager Bob Bonar said Friday the 2,500-acre resort has considered ceding Salt Lake County for years because of waning county support. He pointed to no specific projects, but said county leaders generally have lost their "energy, initiative and maybe their focus" in partnering with the resort.

With the county now calling on homeowners, businesses and even charitable institutions to pay a new police fee -- Snowbird could have to shell out $124,000 annually -- the resort is ready to split.

"We didn't wake up a month ago and decide this was a problem for us," Bonar told the Senate committee. "We have tried to right some of these problems with the county."

In a somewhat surprising twist, Salt Lake County Councilman Michael Jensen spoke out in favor of the bill Friday. Jensen said he understands the resort's frustration and argues Snowbird should have the right to choose whether to stay with the county.

The Republican councilman stopped short of an official endorsement. The Democratic-controlled County Council hasn't taken an official position and concerns persist about how an annexation might affect public safety and tax revenues.

Fellow Councilman Max Burdick, also a Republican, described Snowbird's dissatisfaction as a "wake-up call," which may be reason for more serious reforms.

"It's time we take a very serious look at ourselves and make some very serious changes," he said. "Sometimes you just need paint. Sometimes you need major remodeling. And other times you need to raze the house and start over. At the county, we have done a lot of painting and remodeling. It may now be time to start over and rebuild our house with a more efficient form of government."

The county switched from a commission to a council form of government in 2001.

Snowbird wouldn't be the only resort affected by the bill. Solitude, in neighboring Big Cottonwood Canyon, has made "inquiries" about joining Cottonwood Heights.

Owner Gary DeSeelhorst said his resort needs a better public partner to compete.

But should the Legislature be the arbiter of such disputes? Mike Hansen, chairman of the Granite Community Council at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon, says no. "It is bad public policy."


About SB244
Sen. Curtis Bramble's bill, which now advances to the full Senate, would make it possible for ski resorts to join cities even if their boundaries don't touch. A resort simply would have to be within 10 miles of a city and be separated only by federal lands.


.

cololi Feb 21, 2010 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC Projects (Post 4708003)
:previous:
I've seen one of the city's master plan, it might of been that one. However their master plan is already out of date since their plans didn't include a Soccer Stadium and a aquarium at the time. You said it was adopted in 2002, but the Stadium came in 2007 and the aquarium ( that was at first going to stay downtown SLC ) moved to Sandy 2005 or 2006. It wouldn't surprise me to see Sandy City update their mater plan of their downtown that will better accommodate their facilities. For starters the city really needs to build some kind of a parking garage that will serve both the Stadium and the Expo Center. Next the city should build a sky bridge/cross walk the goes over State Street that will go from the Jordan Commons to the Stadium. ( Not sure if you ever been around that part of state street after a RSL game. People just run across state. As for the City Hall area there needs to be more roads that can break down the big parking lots or blocks. Then again I think there really needs to be a street car line going down 10000 South.
I do believe that over all Sandy is on the right track. But it isn't all going to happen over night. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will Sandy. :haha: Just give them time.

You just proved my point about the lack of planning in Sandy. They may have master plans, but they in no way reflect the direction they are headed. And it does not appear that they really want to plan for the types of land uses that they are now starting to get. If they want to be urban, they need to plan for the things that happen in urban areas.

I have been to a Real game. It was a joke trying to cross State to get back to the Trax station. The pedestrian and vehicle movements around the stadium are exactly what I am talking about when I say they need to improve their connections, not just for cars, but for all modes of transportation. It is great that they built the stadium, but they sure didn't take into account all of the things that happen around an event at the stadium. Narrow sidewalks, sidewalks that are integrated into the curb, a long way between signalized intersections, a lack of intersections and streets to disperse traffic, no clear path to the trax platform, etc.

urbanboy Feb 21, 2010 1:39 AM

oops, wrong thread...

SLC Projects Feb 21, 2010 7:02 PM

Sandy City's Mayor cololi
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cololi (Post 4709899)
You just proved my point about the lack of planning in Sandy. They may have master plans, but they in no way reflect the direction they are headed. And it does not appear that they really want to plan for the types of land uses that they are now starting to get. If they want to be urban, they need to plan for the things that happen in urban areas.

I have been to a Real game. It was a joke trying to cross State to get back to the Trax station. The pedestrian and vehicle movements around the stadium are exactly what I am talking about when I say they need to improve their connections, not just for cars, but for all modes of transportation. It is great that they built the stadium, but they sure didn't take into account all of the things that happen around an event at the stadium. Narrow sidewalks, sidewalks that are integrated into the curb, a long way between signalized intersections, a lack of intersections and streets to disperse traffic, no clear path to the trax platform, etc.

:previous:
Ok let's do this. Lets make you Mayor of Sandy for a week. As Mayor what would YOU to do to improve the city of Sandy with the layout the city has now? The only rule is that you can't tear down ANY buildings that are already in place. Your job is to design a better grid layout that will better connect the buildings that Sandy has now. I've already heard Sandy has not grid, Sandy isn't urban enough. What would you do STEP by STEP to make Sandy more Urban. Some people say what a crappy job Mayor Tom Dolan is doing to Sandy. Well it's your turn. Give us a city address of what you have plan for the future development of Sandy city. :yes:

( I'm not being a smart ass, I'm just wondering what you would do in Tom Dolan's shoes. )

cololi Feb 21, 2010 9:06 PM

First, I would never live in a place like Sandy. But just to amuse you:


I would map where all the roads should go, then tell property owners they cannot put a building on their property where a road would be. Over time, the road goes in, buildings don't block future roads and voila, a street grid, pedestrian grid and room for a mix used urban center in the middle of a suburb.

scottharding Feb 21, 2010 10:56 PM

I'm with you, Cololi, on what Sandy lacks and needs to do to improve and develop an urban (or even functional) center. But I doubt it's as simple as your reply to SLCprojects. I think Mayor Dolan is a fool of a mayor, and the wrong guy for the job. But even the best of mayors would have their hands full giving Sandy a core, because it's not as simple as saying to property owners "you can't build there. It's gonna be a road someday."


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