Settle down fella. I'm not sure what you read in my post that leads you to believe that I don't approve of the current setup or that I think another tower must absolutely be placed on that site.

I just merely musing that, with a bit more forethought, Comcast/Liberty could have left space for a second tower on that site and in doing so, could have avoided the need to buy more land and dig another foundation while at the same time making double use of the Suburban Station connection and keeping their campus as close together as possible. A second tower could easily fit on the site without appearing "jammed" in. Heck, in NY, they'd fit three towers here. The height really has nothing to do with what I was even talking about.

I think the massing of this building is already pretty dense for the site. To fit in a second tower, they would have to reduce the floor plates of each, which kind of defeats the purpose of the large contiguous open space they want.

Is it? I don't doubt it, but it's hard to see from the renderings. Well, either way, I'm perfectly happy with it and the third tower wherever it may land. Again, I was really just thinking aloud, not really espousing a strong opinion here.

I understand McBane’s point clearly. When the announcement was imminent, I had assumed that the tower would be placed on either the east or west side of the lot. If you look at Comcast Center, you could fit two of those towers on that CITC lot.

Like him, I’m not saying whether there should or shouldn’t have been two more slender towers built but the possibility was certainly there. I think that this building is going to look huge and I’m not just referring to height – the girth is going to be really significant.

As far as roof height is concerned, the argument of roof height vs. pinnacle height has been a debate for decades. My first experience with that was in college and the Petronas unseated the Sears Building. By stating that CITC may look visually shorter than CC from some or all angles is not being negative.

Is it me or are people having really strong reactions to seemingly benign topics and comments? Sometimes I feel like some of the posters are having arguments via PM and it’s carrying over on unrelated topics…like I’m missing something. With that spirit in mind, let me amend my post with, “Go to hell, McBane! Why do you hate Philadelphia and puppies!” ;)

Yea... I don't think anyone said the discussion over the roof height was being negative. .. it was viewing the roof height as another instance of philadelphia's long history of perceived failure that was attacked as being overly negative. But I don't think that comment was very serious nor were most that followed. I think it's mostly just an issue of tone. It's hard to have a mild mannered debate on the Internet because with zero reference or tone things often get misinterpreted.

building height
 

The Council on Tall Buildings recognizes three measures of building height.
1) to the top of a spire(a spire is an attenuation of the structural framing system, unlike an antennae which is a foreign object, if you will, just attached to the roof)

2) the top of the roof

3) the top of the highest occupied office

if the building has a spire that is usually the height reported

think of a Gothic cathedral, we all agree that when you think of how "high" it is you naturally measure to the top of it's spire(s). The spire in this case is an attenuation of a masonry framing system.

Wow, you've got me beat by one year with almost the exact same experience. I know I came to Philadelphia in the early 80s but only remember the zoo. The first trip to Center City I really remember was in 1994. We were supposed to go to the Outer Banks for my high school graduation, but the island got washed away in a hurricane so we spent a week in New York, Philly, Baltimore, and DC. I was obsessed with Philadelphia for the rest of the summer and kicking myself for not having applied to a college here. It was so gritty and raw, even compared to 1990s New York.

Anyway, I ended up moving to DC after college because - well, when you're from Virginia - that's what you do. Three years later, a rent hike, and a layoff, I decided to move to the weirdo's dream city and haven't looked back.

As much as I loved the grit it's been so wild to watch Philadelphia transform, especially its skyline. But it's also transformed on the street. It's not just the CITC that will be the city's center piece, but Comcast's "campus." Before Comcast Center was built, there was nothing in Center City like it. Every other skyscraper butts right up to the sidewalk. Comcast used the footprint for another skyscraper on very pricy land to build a large plaza to showcase their presence.

I assume you went to VA Tech? My sister went there. I went to Longwood. When I look back on DC I wonder why I didn't move to Philadelphia sooner. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Philadelphia is a sleeping giant about to wake up. Between the Convention Center, the Universities, Comcast, the hospitals, and the creative industry being priced out of New York, Philadelphia is poised to take over the northeast.

In response to all the talk about why more room wasn't left for another tower, I think BenKatzPhillytoParis nailed it. The FAR for this site is already maxed out I'm pretty sure, so if Comcast had decided to move the CITC to one side of the lot in order to leave room for another tower, they would have either had to dramatically reduce the height of CITC or reduce the floor plate to the point where it wouldn't really work as Class A/Trophy office space. So I think we can blame zoning on this one.

It sure would be swell if zoning allowed for almost unrestricted density in the very core of the city, but the tower we're getting is pretty spectacular all the same. I'm just happy that it appears as though the base meets the sidewalk on all sides. Plazas are great, but it's beginning to be a bit over saturated with plazas in that area.

Not to nitpick, but the Bell Atlantic tower to the north does the same thing. It's just that the Bell Atlantic Tower's Plaza is in what we think of as the back of the building and isn't anywhere close to as well done or prominent as Comcast's. I think Comcast Center's plaza really works well.

Cruised by today. Cool to see the Steel rising so high already.

Its interesting to see them putting up steel so high in that small area, but everywhere else is empty? I guess there is a lot of work in those spaces that they need to get around too is my guess.

Oh, you're right, I completely forgot about that. I guess why I notice Comcast's plaza so much is it breaks up the long stretch of high-rises along JFK, whereas BA faces a smaller street. I'm surprised I forgot about that, the Bell tower is probably my favorite Center City skyscraper.

Yeah, Comcast's plaza really works well. It's going to be interesting to see how something as tall will feel sidled right up to the Sterling and the smaller Arch Street without a plaza. I haven't seen any street-level renderings that don't really wide-angle the image.

Update from Building Philly

https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hp...ea&oe=55C0FBE2

More photos here:
https://www.facebook.com/BuildingPhilly

They really are out to prove a point of how high they can build without a tower crane. Somebody call philly cranes.

I like your term "gritty and raw" when describing Philadelphia. The term I use is "great gritty Northern industrial city". I was born in the District of Columbia and lived and worked there for 22 years. Washington is a beautiful city, but it was planned and built to be a government town full of white collar bureaucrats (nothing wrong with that--I was one myself). Consequently D.C. always struck me as being somewhat one-dimensional, and rather stuck on itself--you know, the political capital of the Universe, and all that.

In contrast, Philadelphia is very much a blue collar town, and I find most people here to be hardworking, no-nonsense, and very "down-to-earth". Bottom line, I feel a "hometown" connection with Philly that I never felt for Washington. As a city planner (yes, graduated from Virginia Tech) , I always hoped that I would connect with an affordable city somewhere in America where I could live comfortably without an automobile. Well, Center City is THE perfect place in that regard!

Nice stories from the VA guys. Hope DCnPhilly is right about Philly's impending explosion of greatness.

Nice to see that this very non-mainstream city appeals deeply to at least some non-natives.

So many outsiders find it so much easier to fall in love with flashier, richer, or more mainstream cities, they just won't give Philly its due.

I walked by here yesterday. I still dont see a pad for a tower crane. They were working on an area on the commerce street side of the site and it couldve been prep for a concrete base for the crane. There appeared to be a ramp being constructed on the SW corner of the site for the limited undeground parking that will be included. Either that or truck access to loading docks.

Maybe the crane is on backorder due to the massive building binge in Philly. :D

I always thought of D.C. as very one-dimensional too. It's an industry town, a lot like an L.A. for government and politics. The one thing Philly and D.C. share is that both cities were designed with a unique purpose. But while William Penn designed Philadelphia as the model American city, D.C. was more ancillary. I don't want to crap on D.C. too much though. I wasn't born there but it definitely raised me. But when it comes to American cities, Philadelphia blends better with the likes of New York, Chicago, and Boston in that it is a very three dimensional place.

I have to admit though, I always cringe a bit when I hear "blue collar" affixed to Philadelphia. Yeah, it certainly has that demographic, but so do a lot of big American cities. I prefer to think of Philadelphia - and the fact that it's retained the economic diversity to be perceived as a "blue collar" town - as a city that hasn't yet lost its soul to brunch restaurants.

I think the only reason Philadelphia isn't held to the same esteem as Chicago or San Francisco is because we're stuck so closely between New York and D.C. I think the national mentality towards Philadelphia is going to change very soon. Comcast and whatever they have planned for the CITC is going to play a big role, but there are a lot of other things happening in tandem, namely the new rules at the convention center.

Couple all of Philadelphia's improvements with our affordability, and the capability of working any corporate job from a laptop, and there is no reason to spend $400,000 on a studio in Columbia Heights or $700,000 on one in Brooklyn. I think some very wealthy U.S. cities are about to get a harsh slap in the face.

It's funny, I only lived in D.C. proper for three years and I managed to convince at least ten people to move there. Out of 12 years in Philadelphia, only one. This is a city you either love or hate, or more specifically, you either get or you don't.

And that is exactly what I love about it. From cities like D.C. and San Francisco that have been completely transformed, to cities like Detroit and Cleveland that struggle to do the same, Philadelphia somehow refuses to blend in.

It is, was, and always will be Philadelphia. Newcomers either embrace our quirks or go home, and more and more Americans seem to want what Philadelphia offers. And I really think it's that Philadelphia still offers the quintessential, 20th Century urban experience without being cliche, it hasn't become Disneyfied like Manhattan, but never died like Detroit. If you want the 60s, 70s, or 80s, it's right here in Philadelphia, and you can download it to your iTunes.

:haha: " BE PATIENT, FORUMERS! " Your crane is coming.... Meanwhile, all of the anticipation over the tower crane's arrival is ' stealing the thunder ' from the building itself.... I've almost forgotten about the tower and started to lust after the, damn, crane.