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Cage Apr 2, 2018 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8136666)
I think the only reason they still call it a hub is so as not to appear losing to Westjet, as Westjet would pounce on any sign of abandonment by AC. They would spin it as they are the only choice for Calgary, and play up all sorts of critisicms. AC is instead keeping it in name only, yet not giving them any real international boosts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov (Post 8136843)
Air Canada occasionally refers to YYC as a hub. However, it seems to increasingly only list Pearson, Vancouver, and Montreal lately.

YYC seems to be in a bit of a hybrid place. It is the only non-hub that AC serves with both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific flights. It has far more AC service than the "focus cities". However, it has far less AC service, especially international, than the three hub cities.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 8137700)
YYC is a hub for AC.

It's just not a "strategic hub" like YYZ, YUL and YVR (AC's words, not mine).

At the AC Investor Day, YYC was called a Regional Hub where as YYZ/YVR/YUL were classified as Global Hubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8137559)
Based on my calculations, AC daily departures from their hubs/focus cities are as follows:

YYZ 353 (Feb 4)
YUL 156 (Feb 4)
YVR 150 (Feb 4)
YYC 94 (Feb 4)
YOW 55 (March 29)
YHZ 52 (March 29)
YEG 40 (March 29)

Based on the numbers posted above, YYC is clearly a hub for AC as it has twice the number of flights as the next 3 cities (YOW, YHZ, YEG). That said its not a Global Hub for AC.

Also, in terms of seats (both number and growth over the past 5 years) AC YYC ops are a hub.

Finally, WS connects about 1.7 million people at YYC and the airport authority reports about 3 million connecting passengers. Pretty safe to assume the remainder of the 1.3 million connecting pax are flying AC. Those numbers support YYC as an AC hub as focus cities are mainly O&D type traffic.


Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8137719)
I would have agreed with you 110% a few years ago. I still mostly do, but in a few years, unless AC adds some flights at YYC, it will be debatable.

For AC to drop the YYC hub status, one of the next three (YOW, YHZ, YEG) would have to double flights while not having the other end be YYC.

If AC maintains flights at YYC and doubles flights at the next three, then both YYC and the other airport get Regional Hub status.

Talking about specific airports on the next three airports:
YHZ - The airport is the single largest source of DH1 and DH3 (3-50 seat Dash 8 flights) outside of YYZ and YUL. YHZ big challenge will be to maintain frequency as these flights are converted to Q400 78 seat flights. YYC has largely all ready undergone this conversion from DH1/3 to the Q400.

YHZ - The introduction of AC Rouge onto domestic high frequency express routes (read YYZ-YQB) could negatively impact YHZ Specifically YYG-YYZ on rouge could replace traffic that previously went YYG-YHZ-XXX. If AC rouge is successful in eastern Canada, AC could develop a western rouge 319 network in YYC and convert YXE, YQR, YLW, YEG, LAS, PHX, LAX, SFO, etc to the rouge network. YHZ has no chance of converting their routes from AC Express to AC Rouge.

YOW - YOW suffers from being close to both YUL and YYZ, cities that are AC's hill to die on. In YYC, AC can put on a few extra flights to make life hard for WS. See the recent 7M8 expansion to Hawaii as an example.

YEG - I expect YEG to enjoy some success with AC at overflying the WS YYC hub. See above reasoning where-in AC is looking to make life difficult for WS where-ever possible. However routes like YEG-SFO won't cover the 40+ flight deficit between YYC and YEG. Finally, AC YEG ops largest number of flights is to YYC. Any new services are likely to draw some passengers and flights away from YYC services, making the new service a net zero for YEG ops while only small reduction to YYC ops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 8137774)
WS would be over the moon. AC is slowly drawing down their service (despite their rosy pressers). Somewhat ironically, AC is doing to YYC what “every airline in the world” has been doing to YEG, funneling their passengers thru nearby hubs. ;) :haha:

My message to WS RE: AC dropping YYC as a hub; "be careful what you wish for, you might get it".

Mark my word, put a bag of microwave popcorn and beer into a brown paper bag. Place a note on the bag, "To be opened when the media reveals that AC dropped YYC-NRT". The media is going to be pushing WS for comment as to whether WS will replace AC, especially with all those new Dreamliners coming to town. Then it will be hey WS why don't you fly from the hometown to PEK or HKG. Finally it will be, hey WS why don't you make YYC the Swoop hub with cheap flights around North America.

Thursday April 19th is the Calgary Airport Authority AGM. Maybe someone will go the AGM and ask the CAA just those questions in front of the media.

zahav Apr 2, 2018 10:40 PM

I've travelled quite a bit, and I find the colours and feel of YVR is very different to most NA airports at least. While YYZ T1, YYC, YUL are more modern (tile, marble, big columns, lots of white), YVR has much more wood, and green/blue everywhere. They purposely did this to mimic forest, sea, sky as part of the BC theme. It's definitely a matter of taste, but it does set it apart and I find creates a more comfortable atmosphere (not to mention more of the nature and art elements).

If you ever ready Skytrax reviews of any airport, there main points are always customs/immigration lineups, security lineups, and waits for anything in general. Sadly CATSA is independent, as are immigration, so all airports can do is provide the infrastructure and make movement as smooth as possible. But if CATSA or CBSA (or US agents in pre-clearance) are being dicks and keeping the lines long, then the airports can't really do much. I'm not sure how it works overseas, but there are WAYYY less complaints about customs and security at airports like Incheon and Haneda, I feel like NA airport security/border staff are just not into customer experience at all

The Chemist Apr 2, 2018 11:02 PM

Not sure why there's so much griping about YVR / YYZ for transfers. Living in Asia I've done transfers through both airports and they're pretty good, especially YVR. YVR is also a really beautiful airport.

As a frequent flier, I'm not surprised in the least that SIN is the number one airport in the world. For me, it's really no contest - SIN is head and shoulders above ANY other airport I've ever been to. No other airport even comes close.

zahav Apr 2, 2018 11:38 PM

I think calling YYC a regional hub is definitely accurate, they are for sure a hub of some kind, but it's just lately less and less highlighted and decidedly not focused outside Canada.

And Cage brings up an interesting point with the aircraft-type. Flight frequency alone doesn't tell the whole story of what's happening at an airport. Just comparing and ranking on departures doesn't tell what kind of flights are there. Those numbers for YYZ, YUL, YVR, YHZ mask the fact that some airports are dominated by small planes, while others have lots of widebodies. For example, AC (or Air Georgian, or EVAS) doesn't operate any 1900D Beech from YVR, but they have themout of YYC, YHZ, and YYZ even. So if they have 10-15 of those 18-seaters, the numbers look high by frequency but traffic is lower. Same thing of course at the other end, where having 10 international flights on 777 HDs is a massive amount of traffic, but still shows as a frequency of 10, same as 10 1900Ds. YVR has the highest % of widebody flights for AC, and highest average plane capacity (reflecting more 319, 320 traffic and no CRJ or ERA traffic).

SpongeG Apr 3, 2018 1:46 AM

oops

SpongeG Apr 3, 2018 1:48 AM

I've never had a chance to see the international part of YVR, I didfly in from the states once and saw the immigration hall though.

Video Link

esquire Apr 3, 2018 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8140872)
I've travelled quite a bit, and I find the colours and feel of YVR is very different to most NA airports at least. While YYZ T1, YYC, YUL are more modern (tile, marble, big columns, lots of white), YVR has much more wood, and green/blue everywhere. They purposely did this to mimic forest, sea, sky as part of the BC theme. It's definitely a matter of taste, but it does set it apart and I find creates a more comfortable atmosphere (not to mention more of the nature and art elements).

Great description. YVR accomplishes something very rare by North American airport standards... it conveys a strong sense of place. And it does it in a nice, tasteful way (unlike, say, slot machines at McCarran).

YVR doesn't have the grandiose Grand Central Terminal feeling that some airports have like YYZ T1, but to that I say who cares. I like the generally comfortable feeling of YVR with the beautiful views out the window. The place is well run and it shows. My next couple of overseas trips involve YVR connections (one is short, just 2 hours so only time for a quick lounge visit, another one is 24 hours so I will be renting a car and exploring the area some more) and I don't mind that at all.

DrNest Apr 3, 2018 2:45 PM

I would certainly agree with you regarding the views from YVR. While I'm not a fan of the layout and gates, the views out the window are fantastic.

zahav Apr 3, 2018 8:14 PM

I know from working on existing projects, YVR's biggest focus right now is streamlining connections, especially international to transborder. This is all tied up with CATSA plus as well. They know that making the airport smoother for connections is the main key to long term growth.

On a separate topic, I noticed AC is flying an A330-300 between YHZ and YUL on one of the daily flights. Is that new this year?

LeftCoaster Apr 3, 2018 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8141368)
Great description. YVR accomplishes something very rare by North American airport standards... it conveys a strong sense of place. And it does it in a nice, tasteful way (unlike, say, slot machines at McCarran).

That's a great way to describe what I like about YVR.

YYZ and the new YYC are certainly beautiful airports but they feel like an airport that could be placed in any city in the world and not miss a beat. YVR, like it or hate it, is most definitely YVR and has a very unique feel.

thenoflyzone Apr 3, 2018 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8141828)
I know from working on existing projects, YVR's biggest focus right now is streamlining connections, especially international to transborder. This is all tied up with CATSA plus as well. They know that making the airport smoother for connections is the main key to long term growth.

On a separate topic, I noticed AC is flying an A330-300 between YHZ and YUL on one of the daily flights. Is that new this year?

Where do you see that? Of the 6 daily YUL-YHZ, only 2 are on mainline, and neither AC664 nor AC668 is showing A333.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac664

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac668

casper Apr 4, 2018 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8141368)
Great description. YVR accomplishes something very rare by North American airport standards... it conveys a strong sense of place. And it does it in a nice, tasteful way (unlike, say, slot machines at McCarran).

YVR doesn't have the grandiose Grand Central Terminal feeling that some airports have like YYZ T1, but to that I say who cares. I like the generally comfortable feeling of YVR with the beautiful views out the window. The place is well run and it shows. My next couple of overseas trips involve YVR connections (one is short, just 2 hours so only time for a quick lounge visit, another one is 24 hours so I will be renting a car and exploring the area some more) and I don't mind that at all.

YYC does have features that speak to is cowboy heritage. However they tend to be isolated for example the art work near the ceiling in the domestic hammer head. YVR is different in the westcoast theme is everywhere. Given how the building has evolved over time it is impressive they have maintained such a consistent experience.

Alexcaban Apr 4, 2018 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8141999)
Where do you see that? Of the 6 daily YUL-YHZ, only 2 are on mainline, and neither AC664 nor AC668 is showing A333.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac664

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac668

Looks like the 13:30 YUL-YHZ AC664 will be operated by A333



AC662 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 08:00 10:30 320
AC8784 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 09:25 11:49 CR9
AC664 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 13:30 16:00 333
AC672 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 16:05 18:35 320
AC668 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 18:00 20:31 E90
AC674 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 20:55 23:26 E90

thenoflyzone Apr 4, 2018 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 8142268)
Looks like the 13:30 YUL-YHZ AC664 will be operated by A333

AC664 YUL YHZ FR 20 JUL 13:30 16:00 333

Interesting.

I guess a widebody is needed to handle the influx of all those Asian passengers into Nova Scotia and P.E.I...;)

isaidso Apr 4, 2018 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8141368)
Great description. YVR accomplishes something very rare by North American airport standards... it conveys a strong sense of place. And it does it in a nice, tasteful way (unlike, say, slot machines at McCarran).

YVR doesn't have the grandiose Grand Central Terminal feeling that some airports have like YYZ T1, but to that I say who cares. I like the generally comfortable feeling of YVR with the beautiful views out the window. The place is well run and it shows. My next couple of overseas trips involve YVR connections (one is short, just 2 hours so only time for a quick lounge visit, another one is 24 hours so I will be renting a car and exploring the area some more) and I don't mind that at all.

I like YVR as well but it did feel small. I wonder whether they can maintain that aesthetic and feel when YVR grows into a 50 million PAX airport. It might take a while but it will surely happen.

Acajack Apr 4, 2018 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8141368)
Great description. YVR accomplishes something very rare by North American airport standards... it conveys a strong sense of place. And it does it in a nice, tasteful way (unlike, say, slot machines at McCarran).

YVR doesn't have the grandiose Grand Central Terminal feeling that some airports have like YYZ T1, but to that I say who cares. I like the generally comfortable feeling of YVR with the beautiful views out the window. The place is well run and it shows. My next couple of overseas trips involve YVR connections (one is short, just 2 hours so only time for a quick lounge visit, another one is 24 hours so I will be renting a car and exploring the area some more) and I don't mind that at all.

I agree. I've always got that feeling there. And the Canadian Museum of History (formerly Civilization) here in Gatineau agrees as they've replicated am old lounge from YVR in their "Canada Hall" as part of the Pacific Gateway section.

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exh.../mod10_01b.jpg

esquire Apr 4, 2018 2:38 PM

^ That is really beautiful!

Acajack Apr 4, 2018 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8142544)
^ That is really beautiful!

So is (was) the real thing!

FFX-ME Apr 4, 2018 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8142528)
I agree. I've always got that feeling there. And the Canadian Museum of Civilization (spelt, Canadian Museum of History) here in Hull agrees as they've replicated am old lounge from YVR in their "Canada Hall" as part of the Pacific Gateway section.

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exh.../mod10_01b.jpg

I fixed it for you ;) lol

Acajack Apr 4, 2018 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 8142900)
I fixed it for you ;) lol

You're such an infatigable Hullois patriot!


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