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-   -   Albina Vision / Rose Quarter Redevelopment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152548)

PDXDENSITY Nov 21, 2014 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 6816319)
This issue has never been whether the MC is a great building or not. I think it's a great piece of architecture. This issue is finding a viable reuse of the building. It's not economically viable as a sports arena right across from another sports arena. It will either always struggle or compete in a way that hurts both buildings. I'm not in the camp that it needs to come down but I do believe that a new use needs to be found for it. I really don't know what that is. Maybe you float a steel structure inside and make that offices and keep the outside as is. Somewhere I saw someone suggest that it could make a really cool ice center to perhaps replace the rink at Lloyd Center. Some creativity is needed here.

It could become an indoor-outdoor park?! Make dirt bike amenities and skateboard amenities inside and climbing walls... Develop the land around it. It will forever stand and be widely used...

maccoinnich Nov 21, 2014 8:31 PM

Registration for the VMC tour open on Event Brite.

urbanlife Nov 21, 2014 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxlexus (Post 6816041)
That was the old Thunderbird Motor Inn. I believe it later became a Red Lion proprty before it was demolished about 15 years ago.

That is cool, I never knew that. I wonder who owns the land now and why there hasn't been any new development there. It seems like it would be a great location for a series of residential towers that provide easy access to downtown.

maccoinnich Nov 21, 2014 9:36 PM

I was curious about the same questions, and looked it up. The property is owned by Aegan Corp, which seems to be a company linked to Paul Allen. Even though it is zoned Central Commercial, the site has a scenic overlay, which limits the height to which it can be developed.

i2m Nov 21, 2014 9:42 PM

The riverfront property west of the colliseum is owned by Vulcan- Paul Allens development company. Over the years there have been studies to develop the property as offices and other mixed uses.

eric cantona Nov 21, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 6816727)
That is cool, I never knew that. I wonder who owns the land now and why there hasn't been any new development there. It seems like it would be a great location for a series of residential towers that provide easy access to downtown.

it was also the site of an epic party for the 2000 new years. I believe that was the last time the hotel was actually used before demolition.

PDXDENSITY Nov 21, 2014 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i2m (Post 6816753)
The riverfront property west of the colliseum is owned by Vulcan- Paul Allens development company. Over the years there have been studies to develop the property as offices and other mixed uses.

It would be neat if that actually happened. Despite the height restrictions there, there could be some cool riverfront infill.

puerco Jan 15, 2015 4:31 AM

Calaroga Terrace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scleeb (Post 6816066)
I believe that is the Calaroga Terrace Retirement Building.

I would love to see if anyone could find renderings of the Coliseum Gardens from the mid-60s. Calaroga Terrace was the only building built from the ambitious project very similar to Portland Center.

maccoinnich Aug 26, 2015 7:22 PM

Quote:

Grand visions for Veterans Memorial Coliseum don't pencil out

http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/ol...10bac005c2.jpg

No matter how much money Portland officials sink into Veterans Memorial Coliseum, the aging city-owned venue looks to be a money-loser.

That's the takeaway from a new consulting report that evaluated five renovation options, ranging in cost from $35.1 million for basic upgrades to $142.9 million to convert the arena into a track facility.

Those renovations would do little to attract new visitors or events, however, and they're unlikely to generate enough new revenue to cover debt payments tied to the expensive upgrades.

As an alternative, city officials could tear down the arena for an estimated $14 million, according to documents obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive through the state's public records law.

...continues at the Oregonian.

innovativethinking Aug 26, 2015 8:29 PM

Every major city would have flatten this piece of junk money pit years ago. They might as well keep it for a new arenas place until the NBA decides in 5 to 10 years the Moda Center is obsolete; when it is approaching the same age as the Coliseum was when the Rose Garden was built..

zilfondel Aug 26, 2015 9:52 PM

Here's a good takeaway from the article:

Current net loss for the city: $55,000/year (less than the cost of new speedbumps on my street).

Essential repairs and replacement

Cost: $35.1 million
Includes: New plumbing, refurbished seating and concourse, renovated bathrooms, a new roof and scoreboard, access improvements for people with disabilities
Annual events: 116
Annual attendance/paid: 371,200/173,900
Annual operating income: loss of $46,000
Annual income (ticket taxes/parking/capital reserve): loss of $100,000

-------------------

Typical of American cities is the deferred maintenance of infrastructure and assets while we let them slide into disrepair. Note also that the facility is managed by Paul Allen's Rip City Management - they have no incentive to actually schedule money-making events at MC, since they own the Moda Center next door... there is such a conflict of interest here its not even funny.

The winterhawks were going to spend their own money renovating the building in 2012, but because of the scandal, the city turned the money down.

So yeah, if you turn down money and let your buildings fall apart over the course of 50 years, of course it will be costly to renovate them into working order! Did the Federal Government just knock down the Edith Green – Wendell Wyatt Federal Building? Nope! They spent $150 million gutting it down and renovating it.

urbanlife Aug 27, 2015 3:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7143327)
Every major city would have flatten this piece of junk money pit years ago. They might as well keep it for a new arenas place until the NBA decides in 5 to 10 years the Moda Center is obsolete; when it is approaching the same age as the Coliseum was when the Rose Garden was built..

Yeah, that is my thought as well, the moment Allen threatens to move the Blazers to Seattle if he doesn't get a new arena is the moment bulldozers would show up at the Coliseum.

BlazerBeav Aug 27, 2015 8:07 PM

There is simply no need for this building. Winterhawk games are more enjoyable in the Moda Center anyway. Tear it down.

58rhodes Aug 27, 2015 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlazerBeav (Post 7144608)
There is simply no need for this building. Winterhawk games are more enjoyable in the Moda Center anyway. Tear it down.

and put up what???

seriously it will be a vacant lot for years

nobody wants anything to do with that property--case closed.

MarkDaMan Aug 27, 2015 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58rhodes (Post 7144854)
nobody wants anything to do with that property--case closed.

Developers would have a field day if the coliseum was gone and the city opened up the land for redevelopment. Nobody wants anything to do with the coliseum, remove that, you've got desirable land.

2oh1 Aug 28, 2015 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 7143792)
the moment Allen threatens to move the Blazers to Seattle if he doesn't get a new arena is the moment bulldozers would show up at the Coliseum.

My theory is that people will be arguing about how the coliseum is too important to tear down, and there will be failed attempts after failed attempts to find a purpose for the building until The Big One eventually strikes, at which point, it'll be rubble. And then, finally, the land can be put to use again.

Seriously... since the Blazers moved out two decades ago... how much money has been spent on attempts to repurpose Memorial Coliseum? Remember the plans years ago for an entertainment district?

I'm convinced this building is so mired in politics that people will be fighting to save it until an earthquake brings it down.

My fear about the Blazers is that if they someday start to talk about leaving, they'll get a better offer from somewhere else and leave, at which point, we'd be looking to repurpose the Moda Center too.

innovativethinking Aug 28, 2015 3:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1 (Post 7145081)
My theory is that people will be arguing about how the coliseum is too important to tear down, and there will be failed attempts after failed attempts to find a purpose for the building until The Big One eventually strikes, at which point, it'll be rubble. And then, finally, the land can be put to use again.

Seriously... since the Blazers moved out two decades ago... how much money has been spent on attempts to repurpose Memorial Coliseum? Remember the plans years ago for an entertainment district?

I'm convinced this building is so mired in politics that people will be fighting to save it until an earthquake brings it down.

My fear about the Blazers is that if they someday start to talk about leaving, they'll get a better offer from somewhere else and leave, at which point, we'd be looking to repurpose the Moda Center too.

The blazers are a staple to this town. Rip city. Blazer mania. It's an identity that positively recognizes a city on a national and the way the game is going, world stage.

The city of Portland I'm sure will know all that and eventually work it out. I think the site is just stalling till the Rose Garden becomes obsolete. Which isn't much longer at most 5 years.

MarkDaMan Aug 28, 2015 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7145132)
I think the site is just stalling till the Rose Garden becomes obsolete. Which isn't much longer at most 5 years.

The Rose Garden/Moda is a fantastic facility. Blazers have invested tens of millions of dollars the past few years making dramatic improvements, as well as bringing in local food operators. Right now the trend in NBA arenas is to build seating for 17,500 to 19,000 spectators. The Moda originally held 21,000+ fans, which has been reduced over the years. There's absolutely no reason to build a new arena nor worry about them leaving as their iron-clad agreement with Portland requires them to stay in the city through 2023.

innovativethinking Aug 28, 2015 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan (Post 7145802)
The Rose Garden/Moda is a fantastic facility. Blazers have invested tens of millions of dollars the past few years making dramatic improvements, as well as bringing in local food operators. Right now the trend in NBA arenas is to build seating for 17,500 to 19,000 spectators. The Moda originally held 21,000+ fans, which has been reduced over the years. There's absolutely no reason to build a new arena nor worry about them leaving as their iron-clad agreement with Portland requires them to stay in the city through 2023.

Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..

eric cantona Aug 28, 2015 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7145824)
Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..

I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:
  1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...
  1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.


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