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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Illithid Dude Feb 23, 2019 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8474954)
You all ready for a new tallest building outside of downtown? In North Park of all places! El Cajon Blvd? Someone showed me an Instagram post from Jonathan Segal on 12/30/18. In it, he says he hopes to break ground this Fall. I counted 30-31 floors.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7900/...f1f754d1_c.jpg

[/img]

Hope this happens. I love Jonathan Segal's restrained modernist architecture. The idea of an altruistic developer is so strange, but here we are.

Will O' Wisp Feb 23, 2019 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadfast (Post 8484568)
If the spire is built as illustrated, it will absolutely redefine the SD skyline... Nice find!

I 100% guarantee that with that spire SD is going to be starring in a ton of movies. Why spend millions creating a CGI a city of the future when for a couple thousand bucks you can be filming in a real one? :borg:

Will O' Wisp Feb 25, 2019 1:25 AM

Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

Horton Plaza movie theater closes after 33-year run in downtown San Diego; more closures coming

If anyone wants to catch a flick one last time you've got until the 27th. Stockdale is also apparently saying the only things staying from the old Horton Plaza are Jimbo’s, 24 Hour Fitness, the Lyceum Theatre and Macy’s. I got a feeling the Macy's might go too, but the others might have a good chance at making the transition to this new tech plaza (at least if Jimbo's will stop suing everything in sight)

SDCAL Feb 25, 2019 6:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8485794)
Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

Horton Plaza movie theater closes after 33-year run in downtown San Diego; more closures coming

If anyone wants to catch a flick one last time you've got until the 27th. Stockdale is also apparently saying the only things staying from the old Horton Plaza are Jimbo’s, 24 Hour Fitness, the Lyceum Theatre and Macy’s. I got a feeling the Macy's might go too, but the others might have a good chance at making the transition to this new tech plaza (at least if Jimbo's will stop suing everything in sight)

[QUOTE=Will O' Wisp;8485794]Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:


Thanks for posting. I’m confused about the whole Jimbo’s thing. They were told they will be staying in the new development, but they are suing?? I do hope Macy’s stays, it’s the only department store left downtown.

By the way, I have to laugh after reading the comments on the story.

What kind of old, cranky trolls are these replying? The comments are so stupid, are these people even located in the country much less in San Diego? They seem clueless.

Here’s a taste:

jrc92024:

“In a few years downtown will be back to where it was in the late 70s where it was full of homeless, hookers and druggies and do dangerous that it was a ghost town after dark.”

Gale Anderson:

“Downtown is regressing to where it was before Horton Plaza. Bars, peep shows, tattoo parlors, flop houses. Off limits to military personnel.”

Peep shows? I live downtown and can’t say I’ve seen a peep show anywhere. And off limits to the military, wtf?

This is why SD is so backwards in many things, politicians cater to ignorant morons like this.

HurricaneHugo Feb 25, 2019 7:54 AM

Spire looks nice and iconic!

Much better than the "Wings of Freedom" proposal we had some years back

lx88xl Feb 25, 2019 8:10 PM

Does anyone know if there any plans to redevelop Pacific Highway along the waterfront? The city at least needs to reduce the number of lanes.

mello Feb 25, 2019 8:54 PM

Great news about 7th and Market, what did they mean by "end of the year"? Is that Q3 or Q4... Lets get going on that and Seaport now! So tired of waiting.

cactus22minus1 Feb 25, 2019 9:28 PM

[QUOTE=SDCAL;8485994]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8485794)
Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

By the way, I have to laugh after reading the comments on the story.

What kind of old, cranky trolls are these replying? The comments are so stupid, are these people even located in the country much less in San Diego? They seem clueless.

Here’s a taste:

jrc92024:

“In a few years downtown will be back to where it was in the late 70s where it was full of homeless, hookers and druggies and do dangerous that it was a ghost town after dark.”

Gale Anderson:

“Downtown is regressing to where it was before Horton Plaza. Bars, peep shows, tattoo parlors, flop houses. Off limits to military personnel.

Peep shows? I live downtown and can’t say I’ve seen a peep show anywhere. And off limits to the military, wtf?

This is why SD is so backwards in many things, politicians cater to ignorant morons like this.

Those comments are, indeed, a bit insane. BUT there is some truth to the "Off limits to military personnel" comment. I was as confused as you are when I heard this, but it came straight from a guy in the Navy. They aren't allowed to hang out in the Gaslamp because there are too many temptations that could lead to civilians seeing military behavior in a bad light. It sounds crazy, but apparently true.

Does this mean downtown is regressing though? Of course not. People like to use the homeless problem (which is also very real) as a reason to bash on city council or downtown in general because they find it intimidating. They also probably haven't gotten around to many other cities before.

JerellO Feb 25, 2019 10:47 PM

[QUOTE=cactus22minus1;8486773]
Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 8485994)

Those comments are, indeed, a bit insane. BUT there is some truth to the "Off limits to military personnel" comment. I was as confused as you are when I heard this, but it came straight from a guy in the Navy. They aren't allowed to hang out in the Gaslamp because there are too many temptations that could lead to civilians seeing military behavior in a bad light. It sounds crazy, but apparently true.

Does this mean downtown is regressing though? Of course not. People like to use the homeless problem (which is also very real) as a reason to bash on city council or downtown in general because they find it intimidating. They also probably haven't gotten around to many other cities before.


Hahaha it’s NOT off limits to military personnel. A bunch of my navy friends are out there all the time

Northparkwizard Feb 26, 2019 1:19 AM

[QUOTE=JerellO;8486925]
Quote:

Originally Posted by cactus22minus1 (Post 8486773)


Hahaha it’s NOT off limits to military personnel. A bunch of my navy friends are out there all the time

I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

sandiego_urban Feb 26, 2019 2:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nv_2897 (Post 8484562)
Credit to @the_drysdale_team on instagram for the photos

Heres an update on the seaport village redevelopment and how it will ultimately affect the skyline im pretty sure Seaport San San Diego will unveil the photos on their site soon. The spire looks iconic and looks pretty unique. The entire project looks very organic and freeform it gives me Zaha Hadid vibes

https://i.imgur.com/qYobJ0q.png
https://i.imgur.com/Do2krir.png
https://i.imgur.com/OFAcciQ.png
https://i.imgur.com/z3w5chp.png

I agree with what others have already said, these are the best renderings of the redevelopment so far. If only (and a big if), it was 100' taller than everything else around it. And good call on the Zaha Hadid reference. I'm still salty that La Jolla residents stopped one of her homes from being built.

https://www.lajollalight.com/sdljl-f...v07-story.html

sandiego_urban Feb 26, 2019 2:23 AM

11th and B Proposal:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/...78f9680a_z.jpg

And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/...43a7241b_z.jpg


https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...18_reduced.pdf

Will O' Wisp Feb 26, 2019 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 8485994)
Thanks for posting. I’m confused about the whole Jimbo’s thing. They were told they will be staying in the new development, but they are suing?? I do hope Macy’s stays, it’s the only department store left downtown.

The only person who'd know the answer to that question would be Mr. Jimbo himself. Having dealt with lease issues and their related legal actions before, I can tell you it typically comes from a sense that they're "entitled" to compensation because things didn't go the way they intended. If this case goes to trial Jimbo's will probably lose on the basis of impossibility, impracticability, or frustration of purpose (i.e. it was impossible for anyone to run Horton Plaza as a "world class mall" per Jimbo's lease, the cost of trying to do so would have bankrupted Westfield, or unforeseen circumstances meant that if Westfield had tried they would have lost money and Jimbo's had an understanding that Westfield is in the business of making money). Jimbo's only path to victory is proving that Westfield had the capability to run Horton Plaza profitably as a high class mall, but for some reason chose not to. But there's a good chance Stockdale will settle with Jimbo's just to avoid a legal cloud hovering over their property, which is probably what Jimbo's is counting on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lx88xl (Post 8486652)
Does anyone know if there any plans to redevelop Pacific Highway along the waterfront? The city at least needs to reduce the number of lanes.

Nope, but there are some ideas to remove lanes from Harbor Drive south of Laurel St.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northparkwizard (Post 8487177)
I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

Getting drunk and doing stupid things is discouraged for all military personnel, doubly so for officers and triply for anyone in uniform. Your CO is allowed to ban you from certain places if they think it will keep you from getting into trouble, but there isn't a general rule that the military aren't allowed in gaslamp.

Source: friend who's a naval officer.

Will O' Wisp Feb 26, 2019 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8487250)
And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.

I mean, if you really wanted you could build a supertall in Horton Plaza. The FAA only has one legally defined surface that will require an airport to alter or stop flight operations if violated: the TSS.

https://i.imgur.com/D5LnrZ1.jpg

In addition there are the TERPS surfaces that if violated the FAA will shut down the various guidance systems, meaning aircraft would have no way to land in bad weather.

https://i.imgur.com/BgCyTA2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FlKRCuL.jpg

And finally there are the Part 77 surfaces that the FAA prefers there be no violations of, but can't really do anything if penetrated other than require you add red lights to obstructions.

https://i.imgur.com/euYKSvz.jpg

Yeah... there's a reason the FAA doesn't like KSAN very much.

Anyway, it's CA state law says that anything penetrating the Part 77 surfaces can't be higher than 500' AGL (hence why 1 America Plaza tops out there). The rest is up to the city council, why seem to have set the 500' above sea level rule (Seaport Village says their new tower will be 500' tall, so presumably council has given them some indications they're going to allow an exception).

HurricaneHugo Feb 26, 2019 6:45 AM

After decades of suburban sprawl, San Diego eyes big shift to dense development

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...225-story.html

Steadfast Feb 26, 2019 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8487250)
11th and B Proposal:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/...78f9680a_z.jpg

And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/...43a7241b_z.jpg


https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...18_reduced.pdf

Is this on the corner where the Jiffy Lube now stands?

JerellO Feb 26, 2019 5:20 PM

[QUOTE=Northparkwizard;8487177]
Quote:

Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 8486925)

I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

Oh trust me NOBODY wants to go out partying in their uniform. Having been in the navy, we’re in those damn things almost most of our lives that the last thing military personnel wanna do is wear their uniform when they don’t have to, especially out.. you’re just making yourself a target. The guys you see out in uniform are either newbies, or they’re currently working and running errands or grabbing a bite to eat on their lunch or whatever

eburress Feb 26, 2019 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8487328)
...so presumably council has given them some indications they're going to allow an exception).

You may be right but one thing to remember is the council did approve that too-tall Sunroad tower in Kearny Mesa which the FAA considered a hazard. A council approval doesn't mean much when the FAA is involved. :)

Will O' Wisp Feb 27, 2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 8487903)
You may be right but one thing to remember is the council did approve that too-tall Sunroad tower in Kearny Mesa which the FAA considered a hazard. A council approval doesn't mean much when the FAA is involved. :)

I actually have a bit of personal knowledge about this incident...

To understand this whole mess, know the only thing related to off airport construction the FAA is legally entitled to do is demand a new projects give them notice before construction begins so the FAA can determine if the effect air navigation or not. If this new construction penetrates a TSS or TERPS surface the FAA can issue a Determination of Hazard to Air Navigation and then... nothing. There is no enforcement mechanism at the federal level to prevent you from building a skyscraper three feet from the end of the runway.

Now in the event that some dastardly municipality decides to permit a hazardous structure the FAA has two options. First, the FAA gives out billions each year to improve airports nationwide. If a local government decides to take them, which they love to do since it's free money, the FAA require they pass laws stating that they won't permit buildings the FAA determines as hazards. The FAA could, in theory, sue for that money back if a city decides to ignore these agreement. In reality, that concept is on slightly shaky legal ground and so the FAA has never actually used that nuclear option.

The second choice, and the one the FAA always ends up using, is to require the airport to adjust its flight procedures until the FAA determines the hazard is mitigated. Usually this means requiring better visibility in bad weather conditions, so that it can be guaranteed that pilots will be able to see and avoid the obstacle. This is bad for the pilots, since now they can't perform certain maneuvers in rain or fog and the like.

What Sunroad did was bribe a city employee to issue a building permit after the FAA issued a Determination of Hazard to Air Navigation, in violation of the laws San Diego passed after agreeing to take federal money for their airports. They did this because they knew the FAA wasn't going to go full armageddon for a 20 foot height violation, and they assumed no one would notice or care if the FAA changed Montgomery Field's flight procedures. They almost got away with it too, no one noticed anything until the tower was already under construction and the FAA posted notice that they were adjusting the weather minimums in a few months.

Well unknown to Sunroad San Diego has one of the largest and most active communities of small aircraft pilots in the nation, who were absolutely furious at being taken advantage of. They threatened to sue the city for their loss of use and enjoyment of the airport, and they city's legal council advised that it would be extremely liable considering the building was illegally issued a permit. The mayor issued a stop work order, Sunroad tried to claim everything was fine because the city had issued it a permit, but eventually Sunroad was forced to tear down the roof of their building. They tried suing claiming the city had mislead them and that the city didn't need to force them to comply with FAA rules, but when all that happened became clear that didn't fly very well in the courtroom.

So as you can see even in that situation all the enforcement ultimately went through city hall, with the FAA's only role being to put up with Sunroad's begging pleas to reconsider their ruling after the city ordered them lop off the top two stories of their brand new building. In any case the FAA will almost certainly issue a Determination of Non-Hazard to Air Navigation to the Seaport Village Tower since there are already similar sized buildings closer to the aiport. They already utilized that second option decades ago, so there's no need to change anything on this project's account.

chjbolton Feb 27, 2019 4:18 PM

That airport pisses me off.
Just like the Seattle one or the Canary Wharf one in London...


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