SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Compilations (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87)
-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

spoonman Dec 11, 2018 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8403806)
Well if you insist...

Fun times, County approved a master plan for McClellan-Palomar airport with an 800' runway extension and an upgrade in classification to D-III for commercial service (aka regional jets, up to 737s although other factors make this unlikely). Predictably a group of North County residents sued under CEQA, guided by the ever gratuitous Correy Briggs, esq.

I really wish there was better education on CEQA, then maybe we'd have less of these pointless lawsuits. Just an FYI, the ultimate authority for project approvals lies with the local approving body (city council, board of supervisors, etc). All CEQA says is that you are require to present this body with an accurate statement on any new effects this project will have on the physical environment before approving it, and if there was anything missing from this statement you can sue to have the statement redone and presented again.

For reference, a list of things that do not represent a valid CEQA case:

-Any existing environmental conditions, or anything that would still occur if the project wasn't built. That's simply outside the scope of what we're discussing.
-Any environmental impact that was disclosed in the EIR, even if it wasn't mitigated. Your duly elected representatives are assumed to have read the document and their approval means the benefits of this proposed project have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any reasoning the approving body's to approve the project, short of bribery or other malfeasance. As duly elected representatives the approving board de-facto represents the will of the community itself, and thus are given broad leeway in their decision making.
-Any reasoning the project sponsor or approving body used to make choice of alternatives, even if this lead to them choosing an alternative that presents greater environmental impacts than the others. Again, approving bodies have broad leeway in their decision making and their approval means the benefits have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any non-physical environmental impacts, including social and economic impacts. The courts have really been cracking down on this one lately, so any arguments about how this project affects your lifestyle or income are going to get short shrift unless you can provide a direct, measurable, and physical link with the project (and not how it makes you feel sad/unhappy).
-Any minor issues with document formatting or inconsequential omitted environmental impacts that wouldn't have effected the approving body's decision. No EIR can ever be totally complete or perfect, the point is to provide the approving body with enough information to make a yes/no judgement.

A list of things that do represent a valid CEQA case:

-When a project sponsor, intentionally or unintentionally, omits one or more of the ways the proposed project will effect the physical environment around it, and the omission was significant enough to likely effect the approving body's decision. Or in layman's terms, if there was something left out of the EIR that could've changed the approving body's mind. Anything else, and all you're doing is wasting two years of everyone's time and helping pay for Corey Briggs' new yacht.

How likely is expanded airline service, beyond what is currently offered? Will an extra 800ft be a difference maker?

Streamliner Dec 11, 2018 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8403806)
Well if you insist...

Fun times, County approved a master plan for McClellan-Palomar airport with an 800' runway extension and an upgrade in classification to D-III for commercial service (aka regional jets, up to 737s although other factors make this unlikely). Predictably a group of North County residents sued under CEQA, guided by the ever gratuitous Correy Briggs, esq.

Haven't heard much about Cory in awhile, I was wondering what he's been up to. Thanks for your updates!

Will O' Wisp Dec 12, 2018 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 8405113)
How likely is expanded airline service, beyond what is currently offered? Will an extra 800ft be a difference maker?

County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

202_Cyclist Dec 12, 2018 7:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8405899)
County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

This is exciting news. SNA’s runway length is only 5,700 feet. I think flights from Santa Ana have a limit on passengers to East Coast destinations because of this short runway length and the required length needed for fuel to the East Coast.

spoonman Dec 12, 2018 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8405899)
County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

I didn’t realize that this expansion puts the runway at 5800ft, slightly more than SNA. That is terrific for the reasons you mentioned. I remember in Carlsbad’s heyday back around 2006 when it had service from both American and United via Skywest. The markets were LAX and PHX as feeder traffic to these two airlines’ hubs. AA was killed by the recession and United lasted until Skywest decommissioned the Brasília aircraft. This left no service until the upstart Airlines like Cal Pacific came along, with service to places like PHX, LAS, OAK, etc.

I’m not sure how long CP Air will last financially, but they obviously tapped into an underserved market. Good news for Carlsbad seems that either CP Air will succeed or another airline(s) will enter the market. The hope is that whoever enters the market can add some point to point service or at least feed multiple hubs.

HurricaneHugo Dec 13, 2018 7:16 PM

Apple starting a San Diego office with 1,000 jobs.

Wonder where they'll set up shop at. What building I mean

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...213-story.html

Will O' Wisp Dec 14, 2018 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 8407671)
Apple starting a San Diego office with 1,000 jobs.

Wonder where they'll set up shop at. What building I mean

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...213-story.html

Somewhere in UTC by the looks of it

Apple Eyes UTC Area for New Campus in San Diego

Looks like the mid-coast extension is already paying some dividends

JerellO Dec 14, 2018 7:39 PM

I wish all these companies can relocate to downtown.. Unversity City/UTC seems too fake, suburban and manicured.. it doesn’t have that real authentic city vibe.

HurricaneHugo Dec 15, 2018 3:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 8409126)
I wish all these companies can relocate to downtown.. Unversity City/UTC seems too fake, suburban and manicured.. it doesn’t have that real authentic city vibe.

That and the 5 and 805 are a mess

sandiego_urban Dec 29, 2018 3:24 AM

Not sure if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline. The location is at Park and Broadway.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/...0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/...68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/...a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...1_Drawings.pdf

JerellO Dec 29, 2018 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8420861)
Sorry if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/...0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/...68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/...a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...1_Drawings.pdf


Where is that tower to be built?

Will O' Wisp Dec 29, 2018 6:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 8420862)
Where is that tower to be built?

In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.

sandiego_urban Dec 29, 2018 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8420946)
In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.

Agreed. It's across the street from Smart Corner and that area still needs plenty of help.

Steadfast Dec 30, 2018 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8420946)
In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.

That's quite the height jump for that part of town... the college & that part of EV is mostly 4-6 storey buildings.
Going to be interesting to see how it fits in.

What's the height on the development currently going up south of Smart Corner?

joemamma Dec 30, 2018 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8420861)
Not sure if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline. The location is at Park and Broadway.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/...0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/...68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/...a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...1_Drawings.pdf



Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban

JerellO Dec 31, 2018 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemamma (Post 8421907)
Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban

Also driving west on the 94 and merging onto 5 north 🙌🏼

sandiego_urban Dec 31, 2018 7:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemamma (Post 8421907)
Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban

I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

Nv_2897 Dec 31, 2018 4:54 PM

Does anyone know whats up with the california theater redevelopment on C street?

SDfan Dec 31, 2018 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8422153)
I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

Honestly, for residential high-rise projects, if it's not Bosa, Pinnacle, Alexan, or a project tied to the city (Park & Market, 7th & Market) I don't see much getting done anytime soon.

We have had a rash of towers proposed from obscure LLC entities who are just trying to get their entitlement permits done so they can increase the value of their properties for future sale.

I mean, maybe this one will be different, but eh. The only way I see them actually being built is if one of the larger development companies buys them and decides to move forward (as Bosa did with the the Block) or they could just squash the project entirely to eliminate competition.

As for 7th and Market, from what we last heard they were going to break ground in Q1 or Q2 2019 for a 2021 completion date. Keep your fingers crossed!

Also, a friend at the downtown partnership told me that the owners of the Californian are currently negotiating with their opponents to reach an agreement that preserves the old building but also permits a new tower on-site. Who knows if that'll work out...

SDfan Dec 31, 2018 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 8422153)
I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

Oh! sandiego_urban, the Park and Broadway project renders, was that a recent proposal submitted to Civic or was that something you dug up?


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.