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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Derek May 19, 2015 1:08 AM

They should replace the Sports Arena with an actual arena designed to host basketball/hockey games. Something a football stadium shouldn't do except in special circumstances.

bobbyv May 19, 2015 2:01 AM

If you guys actually looked at numbers, you would realize it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

spoonman May 19, 2015 2:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyv (Post 7031573)
If you guys actually looked at numbers, you would realize it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

Warning. This guy is a troll. Don't bite.

Northparkwizard May 19, 2015 3:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7031579)
Warning. This guy is a troll. Don't bite.

:cheers:

bobbyv May 19, 2015 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7031579)
Warning. This guy is a troll. Don't bite.

A troll? How so? Anyways you guys can see the numbers for yourselves in this article.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...518-story.html

mello May 19, 2015 5:26 AM

In other news did you guys see that Kilroy is now negotiating with Donahue Schriber the owners of Del Mar Highlands across from One Paseo? What is that all about? Surprised Kilroy will even sit in the same room with those selfish bastards trying to hold this project hostage. I hope it doesn't get scaled down too much. The 600 housing units must stay and that area is way under-retailed and office space is in demand there no more scaling down Kilroy!

Is he just thinking that lawsuits could draw this out another 4 years and just wants to break ground on something?

Leo the Dog May 19, 2015 5:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7031769)
In other news did you guys see that Kilroy is now negotiating with Donahue Schriber the owners of Del Mar Highlands across from One Paseo? What is that all about? Surprised Kilroy will even sit in the same room with those selfish bastards trying to hold this project hostage. I hope it doesn't get scaled down too much. The 600 housing units must stay and that area is way under-retailed and office space is in demand there no more scaling down Kilroy!

Is he just thinking that lawsuits could draw this out another 4 years and just wants to break ground on something?

The way I look at it, as much as us urbanist's want this, there will have to be a compromise, or else the NIMBYS will prevail in this city, especially in this area.

ucsbgaucho May 19, 2015 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7031532)
They should replace the Sports Arena with an actual arena designed to host basketball/hockey games. Something a football stadium shouldn't do except in special circumstances.

The MLS is not a fan of having its teams play in football stadiums, so that wouldn't help to lure an MLS franchise to SD. And a dedicated indoor arena is needed for any future chance of an NBA or NHL franchise as well. A roof, even temporary, would give SD a shot at hosting the NCAA Final Four. Problem is a strictly open-air stadium won't have A/C or heating systems so you couldn't just put up a temporary roof for that event.

It would be a bummer as the Final Four doesn't have any other acceptable venue on the West Coast.

dales5050 May 19, 2015 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7030503)
Comic Con solutions: Padres are always out of town for that week so 1. Utilize Petco Park
2. Marriott will have a ton of new space coming online next year. 3. Huge lawn/Park next to CC and Hilton on bay put up modern tent space there. 4 South Embarcadero Park same thing futuristic tent space put up on that land. The square footage between these 4 spaces is pretty significant how much more space does Comic Con really need?


From everything that I have been told the issue with Comic Con is not simply tool square footage but rather how the space is laid out. Beyond this, the quality of some of your options simply would not fly IMHO.

I think the quality of 'put up a tent and do it on the lawn' would be instantly disqualified. Even just the possibility of bad weather would make outdoor spaces dead on arrival.

CC needs large halls for the popular panels. They already fill up almost instantly. Most of the spaces you mention outside of the outside space are not as big as the biggest halls to my understanding. Outside of the hall space, the staging of getting people in and out is already a mess. Trying to manage this at temp sites like the Embarcadero Park would mean that entire park would need to be closed off to the public for all of the event. No chance in hell the NIMBYs would allow it.

Thirdly, to the question of how much space does CC need...I think the reality is San Diego would never be able to provide enough.

SDCAL May 19, 2015 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 7029747)
That's not my perception at all. If anything, it appears San Diego is becoming more of a military/retirement/tourism community, not less. Look at what's happening here. Companies are leaving, the Chargers are leaving, ComiCon is potentially leaving. Diversification is not this city's trajectory.

To people who don't necessarily follow politics or development, SD is not the same city it was 1 or 2 decades ago. With Biotech and Tech our economy has diversified, and we do have many more people coming to our city today for reasons other than military or retirement.

The reason for the perception of us still being a military/retirement town is because much of the power structure within the city and especially the county lies with this "old guard" who still pander to NIMBYS.

Most people don't know what kind of hoops we have to get through for these developments and how long it takes. They just visit, then come back 5 or 10 years later and see the progress which can look impressive when you don't know the details of what WASN'T accomplished.

SDCAL May 19, 2015 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dales5050 (Post 7032187)
From everything that I have been told the issue with Comic Con is not simply tool square footage but rather how the space is laid out. Beyond this, the quality of some of your options simply would not fly IMHO.

I think the quality of 'put up a tent and do it on the lawn' would be instantly disqualified. Even just the possibility of bad weather would make outdoor spaces dead on arrival.

CC needs large halls for the popular panels. They already fill up almost instantly. Most of the spaces you mention outside of the outside space are not as big as the biggest halls to my understanding. Outside of the hall space, the staging of getting people in and out is already a mess. Trying to manage this at temp sites like the Embarcadero Park would mean that entire park would need to be closed off to the public for all of the event. No chance in hell the NIMBYs would allow it.

Thirdly, to the question of how much space does CC need...I think the reality is San Diego would never be able to provide enough.

I agree, ComicCon has been extremely clear all along - they want more contiguous convention space. Offsite things like tents and hotel meeting rooms are ok as bandaid fixes for a couple years, but in San Diego band-aid fixes tend to linger and become permanent for decades, so I can only imagine ComicCon decision makers are skeptical.

I do think ComicCon does truly want to make SD work if the city can meet them half way. This is where ComicCon originated as a small comic book convention, and I think this city is very much tied to the "brand", that's probably why they haven't left sooner.

I'm just really tired of the way San Diego does everything at the 24th hour. The Chargers situation should have been resolved years ago, but it took the team making a deal with another city up north for SD to start scrambling to actually achieve something. If and when ComicCon signs a deal with LA, then we'll probably see the same pathetic mad scramble with city officials to try and put the fire out like we're seeing with the Charger's now.

I can guarantee you it will be the same thing with the airport. Logical, timely planning will NOT be enough for the city to accomplish anything tangible. It would either take an unfortunate airline tragedy or simply waiting two or three decades until planes are literally getting backed up and a huge mess is on our hands before we see the famous last -minute SD scrambling, city officials running around liked their hair is on fire, the last minute plans, and everyone trying to shove many years worth of work into a few months.

mello May 20, 2015 7:43 AM

Regarding the Chargers stadium and PSL's the team keeps saying they think they can only get 150 million maximum. I find it hard to believe that from Newport Beach out to Temecula to the border you couldn't find 15,000 wealthy to upper middle class fans willing to shell out 20k for PSL's. There are a ton of rich people in the area I describe and then don't discount diehard contractor type dudes willing to pay 200 per month over 10 years on a financing plan either. The math works out to 300 million in PSL's from my scenario. What do you guys think? Remember the 49ers drew from Santa Rosa down to Carmel for their Personal Seat Licenses.

dales5050 May 21, 2015 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7032526)
I'm just really tired of the way San Diego does everything at the 24th hour.


I think this comes down to a personality complex that 'San Diego' has. I am not an expert on the history of San Diego but I can't think of any major blow that the city has taken. This creates a level of arrogance if you will.

Due to the location, San Diego is like the rich kid who never really had to work a day but still likes to talk about work ethic. The growth of the city was delivered on a silver platter.

Consider the housing crisis. San Diego was first in and first out. In the big picture it's already in the rear view mirror. Water issues? Even with what's going on you still have people who just don't get it. San Diego does not have a 'remember when we made that mistake' moment so let's not make it again. Other cities do.

In other parts of the US cities have either been down for the 10 count or had to struggle to make a city out of nothing and without the benefit of the location that San Diego enjoys that keeps things like the military and high worth folks in town without much concern for appeasement.

Honestly, I think one of the best things that could happen to San Diego is for it to lose both the Chargers AND Comic Con. Both would deal a large body blow to the collective psyche. San Diego would recover, but it would sting for a long time and that pain is what's needed to wake up the people who simply think everything will always work out.

The Flying Dutchman May 21, 2015 8:48 PM

One Paseo compromise reached:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...th-compromise/

Scaled down office and retail, but most housing retained. Better than nothing I suppose, but now it leaves people to drive to work as per usual.

Toon town, indeed.

mello May 21, 2015 9:32 PM

I was hoping that One Paseo could have attracted some tech companies because its close to beaches and lots of retail amenities so close. I hope the reduction in office space isn't too large. So what was the plan going to be a 9 and 7 floor office building? Or was it one 9 floor with the rest of office space being above the retail? I don't believe the housing is going to be on top of retail it is in its own separate section of the property.

That area is does not have a lot of retail amenities and lots of new housing is coming online 3 or 4 miles east in "Pacific Highlands Ranch". Is there still room for more office space next to the Intuit campus? When you drive by on 56 it seems like there is still some flat land ready to go. 600 dense housing units is a plus for sure, lets get this thing started.

eburress May 21, 2015 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7035082)
Is there still room for more office space next to the Intuit campus? When you drive by on 56 it seems like there is still some flat land ready to go. 600 dense housing units is a plus for sure, lets get this thing started.

It wouldn't seem like they are happening anytime soon, but yes, there are spots for two separate multi-building office projects near Intuit's campus.

dales5050 May 22, 2015 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7033091)
Regarding the Chargers stadium and PSL's the team keeps saying they think they can only get 150 million maximum. I find it hard to believe that from Newport Beach out to Temecula to the border you couldn't find 15,000 wealthy to upper middle class fans willing to shell out 20k for PSL's. There are a ton of rich people in the area I describe and then don't discount diehard contractor type dudes willing to pay 200 per month over 10 years on a financing plan either. The math works out to 300 million in PSL's from my scenario. What do you guys think? Remember the 49ers drew from Santa Rosa down to Carmel for their Personal Seat Licenses.

Not sure I see the same opportunity with PSLs that others are projecting.

For starters, even if the Charges build a new stadium, I am 95% sure a stadium is going in LA either in Inglewood (SL Rams) or Carson (Raiders). If that happens, I think anything in the OC would shift to the LA team not the SD team.

Secondly, how far of a net you cast to me depends on what San Diego allows to be built on the 75 acres of Mission Valley that would be sold. My opinion is you would need to make this it's own enclosed 'city' that would be a destination for high wealth folks. This would mean high end hotels and restaurants w/o low end ones. The reason for this is to sell people who are over an hour away a PSL, you're going to need to sell them on the entire weekend and not just the game. If the stadium was going DT, I would have a much different opinion.


That said, I am happy to see they are not using 'economic impact' numbers of big games like the Super Bowl or College Football in their forecast. While the opportunity exists, that should be icing on the cake.


If you remove the Super Bowl, there is a LOT of money in college football. Especially high profile bowl games. The economic impact of the Cotton Bowl in Arlington is about $30M a year. Every year.

With a new stadium and surrounding campus, I would hope that eventually the profile of the Holiday Bowl could be improved. Right now the two bowl games (Holiday and Poinsettia Bowl) have a combined impact of $30.7 million. Every year. It's not hard to see this increasing.

Beyond this, San Diego is a Navy town and Navy plays Notre Dame every year. Right now, this game is a home (Notre Dame) and away in a large stadium (Navy) each year. But there is a push to move this game to San Diego every year.

As a ND fan, this actually has some legs. Here is why:

ND plays Navy out of respect for the Naval Academy for moving officer training there during WWII. Without this, Notre Dame would have had to close its doors. Outside of the tradition and respect, there is little value to the game for ND.

Beyond this, ND is a national school that needs to play all over the US for exposure purposes. They have a Shamrock Series (Dublin Ireland, Chicago, Boston, etc) where they play a home game on the road. This is a well received game. They also have an ongoing series with both USC and Stanford and rotate playing one team in CA and one team in South Bend. The challenge with this is they only get to profile themselves in the very, very, fertile Southern California recruiting area every other year when they play in LA.

Because of this, and when you consider the Navy stuff, Shamrock Stuff and SoCal recruiting stuff, it's not that hard of a reach to see ND and Navy being sold on playing in San Diego every year.

It would be easy to put the economic impact of this game at $10m per year because Notre Dame fans travel and travel well. When they played in Dublin, 30,000 people went.

So I think even without looking at SDSU, a new stadium could bring in over $50M a year in economic impact for just 2-3 games. Over 15 years that's a hell of a lot of money.

Bertrice May 23, 2015 2:38 PM

I thought he was going to be disbarred?
http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws....ant_Dipper.jpg

http://www.sdnews.com/view/full_stor...ce=newsbullets

Northparkwizard May 24, 2015 5:43 PM

"Briggs’ suit alleges the City Council’s approval was illegal on grounds that it violated Proposition G, a 1987 voter-approved initiative restricting non-recreational uses at city-owned Belmont Park"

I consider drinking a recreation/hobby.

Andy-4-SD May 25, 2015 3:04 AM

Anyone know what's going on with the Rhodes Crossing project where Camino Del Sur dead ends off the 56?? I know the projects been pushed back a long long time and switched developers. But there's some new stuff going underway around there and there's a sign there advertising tenants to lease. When are they gonna start on that?


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