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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

isaidso Feb 18, 2019 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8466697)
This would mean that we would become an even more un-rooted and TV-based sports culture than we are already, as I don't see either the NBA or MLS having 7 or more clubs in Canada like the NHL currently has.

The future Canada you're depicting is a Canada where everybody just sits in front of their TVs watching the various Toronto entries in U.S. leagues, and almost no one outside of the GTA (and once-in-a-lifetime "splurge" fan trips) ever goes to games in person.

I can see a time where in hockey and football there's representation in the same league nationally. We'll have 9-10 NHL teams and 10-12 CFL teams. The CHL will continue to get overlooked. In baseball, soccer, and basketball the big 3 cities will play in US based leagues (MLB, MLS, NBA) while the rest of Canada plays in a different league. It's not ideal but that's the reality of living next to a colossus (the USA).

Likka Feb 18, 2019 4:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8466589)
We should expect what's playing out in Toronto to be repeated in cities and towns nationally to varying degrees. It may seem implausible today but I can see a time when hockey isn't #1 nationally. By 2050 (only 31 years away) I can see it dropping to 3rd behind the NBA and MLS.

That will never happen.

Sports experts have been prediction the MLS will overtake the NHL for the last 20 years. It's not even remotely close to happening.

saffronleaf Feb 18, 2019 6:27 AM

Why doesn't the CFL change its schedule?

The CFL should start sometime in March and end sometime in August.

That way there is no direct competition with the NFL. The CFL would be the spring league and the NFL the fall league.

Grey Cup festivities would probably be better if it was in August, too.

esquire Feb 18, 2019 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saffronleaf (Post 8478018)
Why doesn't the CFL change its schedule?

The CFL should start sometime in March and end sometime in August.

That way there is no direct competition with the NFL. The CFL would be the spring league and the NFL the fall league.

Grey Cup festivities would probably be better if it was in August, too.

Starting the season in March would put it in the shadow of the most exciting part of the NHL season which is a nonstarter.

I'm sure part of the appeal of the CFL as a television property is the fact that it fills the gap in the schedule when hockey is either not on, or just starting up (October/November).

I think that is probably a much bigger factor than the NFL in a Canadian context.

JHikka Feb 18, 2019 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8478245)
Starting the season in March would put it in the shadow of the most exciting part of the NHL season which is a nonstarter.

I'm sure part of the appeal of the CFL as a television property is the fact that it fills the gap in the schedule when hockey is either not on, or just starting up (October/November).

I think that is probably a much bigger factor than the NFL in a Canadian context.

Yep. Easier for CFL to go up against NFL than up against NHL which they directly share markets with.

CFL starting in June logically makes sense as only the Stanley Cup Finals are on at that point, whereas starting the season in March guarantees that all teams (including Canadian teams) are still playing for at least another month and a half.

There's also no guarantee that weather in March is any better than weather in October or November. March is still plenty snowy and cold in plenty of places across Canada.

Andy6 Feb 18, 2019 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8478306)
Yep. Easier for CFL to go up against NFL than up against NHL which they directly share markets with.

CFL starting in June logically makes sense as only the Stanley Cup Finals are on at that point, whereas starting the season in March guarantees that all teams (including Canadian teams) are still playing for at least another month and a half.

There's also no guarantee that weather in March is any better than weather in October or November. March is still plenty snowy and cold in plenty of places across Canada.

It would be very hard for CFL teams to sign players if the season started any earlier. CFL clubs have to wait for the NFL draft, then for a while after the NFL draft, before the undrafted players accept that they aren't going to be signed and consider the CFL. Then at the other end of the process they won't be able to sign NFL cuts as much anymore if at that time there are just 3 or 4 games left in the regular season. TSN needs a fall schedule -- having the CFL end at Thanksgiving would be very awkward for them. There is no way the Canadian TV contract would be as good for football going up against the Stanley Cup.

Acajack Feb 18, 2019 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8478306)
Yep. Easier for CFL to go up against NFL than up against NHL which they directly share markets with.

CFL starting in June logically makes sense as only the Stanley Cup Finals are on at that point, whereas starting the season in March guarantees that all teams (including Canadian teams) are still playing for at least another month and a half.

There's also no guarantee that weather in March is any better than weather in October or November. March is still plenty snowy and cold in plenty of places across Canada.

And even if there is no snow on the field, a lot of them are in pretty bad shape in March.

isaidso Feb 19, 2019 4:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likka (Post 8477937)
That will never happen.

Sports experts have been prediction the MLS will overtake the NHL for the last 20 years. It's not even remotely close to happening.

I've never heard sports experts predict that MLS will overtake NHL but I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything. Some predictions are realized while others aren't.

JHikka Feb 19, 2019 1:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8479081)
I've never heard sports experts predict that MLS will overtake NHL but I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything. Some predictions are realized while others aren't.

Yeah, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head saying that MLS would be passing the NHL ten years ago. People today talk about it catching up but it still has a long way to go. MLS has made up good ground on the other major leagues but it'll be another decade or so before it even starts getting close to the NHL (which is far behind the other three). MLS is still six or seven teams short of the other leagues, to boot.

The thing with MLS is that it'll likely never be the best soccer league in the world. It's always going to be second fiddle to EPL/Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A etc. The other major sports leagues don't have that sort of major international competition (only the NHL does, really) and so that's MLS' major handicap. MLS isn't even the most popular soccer league in the US (behind EPL and LigaMX). The NFL/NBA/MLB are far-and-away the best leagues in their sports and lack that international competition for eyeballs.

Of course, this is all US-based. Canda would be a different conversation altogether.

jonny24 Feb 19, 2019 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8478306)
Yep. Easier for CFL to go up against NFL than up against NHL which they directly share markets with.

CFL starting in June logically makes sense as only the Stanley Cup Finals are on at that point, whereas starting the season in March guarantees that all teams (including Canadian teams) are still playing for at least another month and a half.

There's also no guarantee that weather in March is any better than weather in October or November. March is still plenty snowy and cold in plenty of places across Canada.

And, it's a whole lot easier to get people out in the cold when it's the playoffs than when it's just getting started.

Acajack Feb 19, 2019 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8479247)
Yeah, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head saying that MLS would be passing the NHL ten years ago. People today talk about it catching up but it still has a long way to go. MLS has made up good ground on the other major leagues but it'll be another decade or so before it even starts getting close to the NHL (which is far behind the other three). MLS is still six or seven teams short of the other leagues, to boot.

The thing with MLS is that it'll likely never be the best soccer league in the world. It's always going to be second fiddle to EPL/Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A etc. The other major sports leagues don't have that sort of major international competition (only the NHL does, really) and so that's MLS' major handicap. MLS isn't even the most popular soccer league in the US (behind EPL and LigaMX). The NFL/NBA/MLB are far-and-away the best leagues in their sports and lack that international competition for eyeballs.

Of course, this is all US-based. Canda would be a different conversation altogether.

When I first read the comments about MLS passing the NHL I though people were just talking about Canada. I know that's wishful thinking for some (thrown in the NBA there too) but I just don't see that happening unless these two leagues increase their number of Canadian clubs to something approaching what the NHL has.

OTOH I would not be too dismissive about MLS passing the NHL in the U.S. I do think that day is coming - you don't have to be a Professional Forbes Magazine Online Sports List Preparer to see that.

The only thing I can see preventing that is if the MLS makes some major blunders, goes too big too soon and implodes like the old NASL did a couple of decades ago.

Otherwise MLS can only go one way: up.

And while prestige foreign soccer leagues do have a high degree popularity in the U.S. I don't think that will hurt MLS that much. Many Americans generally think whatever is American is automatically the best regardless of whether it truly is or not. Just look at food, movies, literature, music, etc. (Not saying there isn't good U.S. stuff in these areas, but it's not the *only* good stuff like many Americans often claim.)

I believe MLS TV ratings on national mainstream networks are already higher than NHL games on equivalents. And of course as we now the number of MLS fans streaming games online is legendary and higher than any other sport! :P

OK all joking aside maybe it's not as high as the TFC fanboys on SSP claim, but I am willing to concede it's probably higher than the number of people streaming NHL games in the U.S.

esquire Feb 19, 2019 9:14 PM

^ I wouldn't ever expect MLS to dominate its sport the way that, say, MLB or the NFL dominate theirs, but I could see the day coming where 30 years down the road, MLS sits in the upper echelon of soccer leagues and competes for top talent. Maybe not at a EPL or La Liga level, but maybe along the lines of the French or Russian leagues.

There is just so much money in the US that if they took even a rudimentary level of fan interest in the game, it would be enough to make them a powerhouse.

Acajack Feb 19, 2019 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8479913)
^ I wouldn't ever expect MLS to dominate its sport the way that, say, MLB or the NFL dominate theirs, but I could see the day coming where 30 years down the road, MLS sits in the upper echelon of soccer leagues and competes for top talent. Maybe not at a EPL or La Liga level, but maybe along the lines of the French or Russian leagues.

There is just so much money in the US that if they took even a rudimentary level of fan interest in the game, it would be enough to make them a powerhouse
.

Which is precisely what happened with hockey and the NHL.

JHikka Feb 19, 2019 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8479913)
^ I wouldn't ever expect MLS to dominate its sport the way that, say, MLB or the NFL dominate theirs, but I could see the day coming where 30 years down the road, MLS sits in the upper echelon of soccer leagues and competes for top talent. Maybe not at a EPL or La Liga level, but maybe along the lines of the French or Russian leagues.

I think one can make an argument that MLS is somewhere in the teens in regards to overall league quality today. Somewhere below Switzerland and Brazil but above Greece and Scotland, at least IMO. Ranking MLS 14th or 15th in the world wouldn't be unreasonable right now I don't think. MLS club quality is certainly trending up but the league needs better continental results in the CONCACAF Champions League.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8479875)
When I first read the comments about MLS passing the NHL I though people were just talking about Canada. I know that's wishful thinking for some (thrown in the NBA there too) but I just don't see that happening unless these two leagues increase their number of Canadian clubs to something approaching what the NHL has.

This likely won't happen. Three is probably the maximum number of teams MLS will have in Canada, unless they have some bizarre plan to go with more than 32 teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8479875)
And while prestige foreign soccer leagues do have a high degree popularity in the U.S. I don't think that will hurt MLS that much. Many Americans generally think whatever is American is automatically the best regardless of whether it truly is or not. Just look at food, movies, literature, music, etc. (Not saying there isn't good U.S. stuff in these areas, but it's not the *only* good stuff like many Americans often claim.)

I know you're generalizing Americans but I think the real rah-rah chest-bumping American types you're portraying aren't going to be your typical soccer fans. Most American soccer fans are completely cognizant of the fact that MLS is nowhere near being a top league in the world. EPL and LigaMX are still more popular and will be for a bit longer yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8479923)
Which is precisely what happened with hockey and the NHL.

Wait, you mean it wasn't a bad idea to put hockey teams in California, Texas, and Florida? :hmmm:

JHikka Feb 20, 2019 11:17 PM

https://www.vancourier.com/canadian-...ner-1.23640212

Canadian Premier League joins forces with Spain-based media partner

TORONTO — Less than 10 weeks before kickoff, the Canadian Premier League has unveiled its media partner with ambitious plans to showcase soccer in Canada.

Spain-based Mediapro has struck a 10-year deal with Canada Soccer Business, which represents Canada's national teams as well as the fledgling CPL, which kicks off its inaugural season April 27.

A source said Mediapro is investing $200 million into the Canadian project over the lifetime of the deal. Scott Mitchell, CEO of Canadian Soccer Business, calls it "the single-largest commitment any company has ever made in terms of soccer in Canada."

The agreement gives Mediapro global and domestic media rights to the CPL, the Canadian Championship and rights for all home games of the Canadian men's and women's teams. It also includes rights to League 1 Ontario matches, a feeder league under the CPL umbrella.

...

That means the CPL has someone to handle its game production. Mediapro, which has some 70 production trucks worldwide, currently produces games in 16 different leagues.

The initial plan is to have all CPL games available via the league's app/soccer streaming channel, with some matches for free. Viewers will have to pay to get more.

But Mediapro is open to anything, looking for partners on any platform. Mitchell says there has been a "serious appetite" from Canadian domestic partners.

Hackslack Feb 20, 2019 11:26 PM

Will TSN or Sprtsnet be broadcasting CPL games? Have they released a broadcast schedule?

JHikka Feb 20, 2019 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackslack (Post 8481447)
Will TSN or Sprtsnet be broadcasting CPL games? Have they released a broadcast schedule?

If TSN/SN/DAZN/CBC want to broadcast CPL matches they have to purchase them through MediaPro. Would be on top of the $200M already committed by MediaPro to CSB. MediaPro will be acting as the video production unit for CPL content who will then potentially distribute broadcast rights further.

Full league schedule is due out next week.

elly63 Feb 24, 2019 3:15 PM

Doesn't really fit here but nowhere else to put it. There is a TV connection though.

Nearly nobody at Salt Lake City AAF home opener and the broadcasters don’t care either
3Down Staff February 23, 2019

https://twitter.com/i/status/1099401151840223233


https://i.imgur.com/B3ft3O3.png

Somebody's gonna get fired :(

VANRIDERFAN Feb 24, 2019 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8485370)
Doesn't really fit here but nowhere else to put it. There is a TV connection though.

Nearly nobody at Salt Lake City AAF home opener and the broadcasters don’t care either
3Down Staff February 23, 2019

https://twitter.com/i/status/1099401151840223233


https://i.imgur.com/B3ft3O3.png

Somebody's gonna get fired :(

The NFL already has its feeder league, it's called the NCAA. It also has a finishing school if it wants it in the CFL. These rich Americans trying to hive off a slice of the pro football money tree could better use their money to finance primary and secondary school in poorer regions and cities in America. Sadly that'll never happen.

elly63 Feb 24, 2019 5:28 PM

There was a funny quote on twitter, "Nobody's watching, nobody's listening, nobody cares" will be the title of the ESPN 30 for 30 doc next year.

In all seriousness, a spring league could make it if the owners didn't want to be NFL wannabees. The USFL had a decent shot at it until a guy named Donald Trump came along. Never underestimate people's penchant for greed.


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