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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

Acajack Nov 27, 2018 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8391017)
I was going to post this earlier in the week but I didn't want to give our resident CFL hater any ammunition.

Just to put the above headline into context if people don't read the article it had

Ottawa Redblacks/Hamilton Tiger-Cats 729,000
Calgary Stampeders/Winnipeg Blue Bombers 1.2 million

I have yet to see a reason why Ottawa constantly rates so low, they have a good fanbase and are an interesting, fairly exciting team to watch. The Redblacks TV ratings have been near the lowest since the get go, something is not right there.

This sets up a Grey Cup that will not likely be a great number, Ottawa and the ever present Calgary.

The problem with the CFL is that it is competing with it's own history. Other sports get those numbers and they trumpet how great it is and the double digit increases but the CFL gets it and it's a failure. I don't get it.

As I've said many times, in the NFL 6-3 is a titanic defensive struggle, in the CFL it's two crappy offenses.

Ottawa's fans are all millenial techies who live stream games on the Net I guess.

AuxTown Nov 27, 2018 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8391127)
Ottawa's fans are all millenial techies who live stream games on the Net I guess.

I would say that Ottawa bats way above the average when it comes to cutting cable. I keep my cable, mostly for live sports and news channels....but I am now a minority. People in Ottawa tend to be kind of a granola-eating, cross country skiing, non-sports watching type. There ARE lots of die hard Sens and Redblacks fans in our city but probably a higher percentage of indifferent young folks than your average town.

Acajack Nov 27, 2018 3:28 AM

I was being a bit sarcastic because live streaming is often cited as the reason TV ratings are so low for certain teams in other sports.

blueandgoldguy Nov 28, 2018 1:49 AM

I looked at the ratings from previous Grey Cups...Calgary and Ottawa's match from 2 years ago also had lower ratings. I think there is some fatigue from seeing Calgary in the Grey Cup so many times in recent years. Additionally I think these are two of the smallest tv viewing audiences in the league.

Let's be honest though - the game was poor and kinda boring with one memorable play in the entire 60 minutes. A lot of the blame has to go to those responsible for the turf. There was no reason for it to be in the terrible condition it was in for the Grey Cup. Players could not really play to their full potential.

When Regina and Winnipeg were Grey Cup hosts, the conditions of the field were quite good. I don't think the organizers have any legit excuses as they were given all the time in the world to prep the field. Bush League.

JHikka Nov 28, 2018 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8392231)
I looked at the ratings from previous Grey Cups...Calgary and Ottawa's match from 2 years ago also had lower ratings.

For reference.

Previous Grey Cup Ratings:

Year: West/East...............TSN/RDS.......(TOTAL)
2012: Calgary/Toronto......5.5M/300K.....(5.8M)
2013: Sask/Hamilton........4.5M/???K.....(4.5M)
2014: Calgary/Hamilton....3.8M/251K....(4.1M)
2015: Edmonton/Ottawa...4.1M/230K....(4.3M)
2016: Calgary/Ottawa.......3.6M/254K....(3.9M)
2017: Calgary/Toronto......4.1M/220K....(4.3M)
2018: Calgary/Ottawa.......3.1M/???K....(3.1M)

Numbers courtesy Bell, cfldb

Acajack Nov 28, 2018 3:05 PM

Interesting that the Ottawa Redblacks being in the Grey Cup seems to have zero bearing on RDS' ratings for it.

Of course, most Franco-Ontarians in Ottawa and a decent-sized minority of people in Gatineau watch on TSN, I gather.

Though my friends in Gatineau who watched the Grey Cup did so on RDS, and sports bars here all had it on RDS.

TorontoDrew Nov 28, 2018 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8391019)
But the news is not all bad


https://i.imgur.com/rarTdBs.png


Would love to know how they got that data. I can't think of a single Millennial I know who cares about the league.


Then again a 5% jump would be very easy if the numbers are already rock bottom. It's harder to fluctuate numbers like that if you have larger numbers of fans.

esquire Nov 28, 2018 5:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8392767)
Would love to know how they got that data. I can't think of a single Millennial I know who cares about the league.

Hey I know this is crazy, but is it possible that what might be true in Toronto does not necessarily apply to the rest of the country?

JHikka Nov 28, 2018 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8392774)
Hey I know this is crazy, but is it possible that what might be true in Toronto does not necessarily apply to the rest of the country?

It would be foolish to argue that the CFL doesn't have a severe issue with its demographics, though, Toronto or not. 70% of the CFL's viewership is 50+.

This is from an article this week:

“That’s not going to be a surprise to anybody,” said Derek Mager, the managing partner at research and consultancy group The Data Jungle, who has worked with nearly every team in the CFL. “You saw the CFL as a league trying to rebrand and remarket itself a few years ago, and they’ve been trying for a while.

“I think one of their tag lines a few years back was ‘this isn’t your grandfather’s league anymore.’ There’s been a push to try and refill that funnel.”
...
“The demographic is still older, but a larger, younger audience are NFL fans as opposed to CFL fans,” said Mager."


“Football is on the decline, and I could start with the Lions and the CFL. You just look at the people in the stands, and they’re all 60 and over. They’ve disengaged … they’re not connected with the youth.
...
“And as a result of that, the stands were full and there were lots of kids there … and all those kids now are old and they’re still there. They’re missing the young group that’s coming in.”


Emphasis added mine.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/f...3-f85cd1927eca

Anything we provide from personal experience is going to be anecdotal but I can't help but notice most of the time when I see people wearing REDBLACKS merch around town they're usually 50+. It's enough of a trend that it sticks out quite a bit if you look for it.

Berklon Nov 28, 2018 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8392767)
Would love to know how they got that data. I can't think of a single Millennial I know who cares about the league.

I know very few as well, but as esquire notes - this is probably due to the part of the country we live in. I'm sure other provinces/cities would have different results.

Quote:

Then again a 5% jump would be very easy if the numbers are already rock bottom. It's harder to fluctuate numbers like that if you have larger numbers of fans.
Most likely, the CFL acknowledges that it's numbers are low for this demographic - hence their efforts to try and cater/market to them. It has the largest jump of any NA pro league in this demographic because the other leagues don't have as much of a jump to make as it's higher to begin with - although I'm sure they would love to increase it another 5%.

I think CFL should try playing their playoffs on Saturdays again, and maybe try the Grey Cup as well - just to avoid going head-to-head with the NFL. I know as soon as the NFL regular season starts up, they go out of their way to avoid the competition - so it might be best to avoid them here as well.

EpicPonyTime Nov 28, 2018 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8392774)
Hey I know this is crazy, but is it possible that what might be true in Toronto does not necessarily apply to the rest of the country?

What are you talking about? Don't you know the world ends at Steeles Ave? ;)

JHikka Nov 28, 2018 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8392813)
I think CFL should try playing their playoffs on Saturdays again, and maybe try the Grey Cup as well - just to avoid going head-to-head with the NFL. I know as soon as the NFL regular season starts up, they go out of their way to avoid the competition - so it might be best to avoid them here as well.

Saturday gets them going up against NCAA Football and Hockey Night in Canada.

esquire Nov 28, 2018 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8392808)
It would be foolish to argue that the CFL doesn't have a severe issue with its demographics, though, Toronto or not. 70% of the CFL's viewership is 50+.

This is from an article this week:

“That’s not going to be a surprise to anybody,” said Derek Mager, the managing partner at research and consultancy group The Data Jungle, who has worked with nearly every team in the CFL. “You saw the CFL as a league trying to rebrand and remarket itself a few years ago, and they’ve been trying for a while.

“I think one of their tag lines a few years back was ‘this isn’t your grandfather’s league anymore.’ There’s been a push to try and refill that funnel.”
...
“The demographic is still older, but a larger, younger audience are NFL fans as opposed to CFL fans,” said Mager."


“Football is on the decline, and I could start with the Lions and the CFL. You just look at the people in the stands, and they’re all 60 and over. They’ve disengaged … they’re not connected with the youth.
...
“And as a result of that, the stands were full and there were lots of kids there … and all those kids now are old and they’re still there. They’re missing the young group that’s coming in.”


Emphasis added mine.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/f...3-f85cd1927eca

Anything we provide from personal experience is going to be anecdotal but I can't help but notice most of the time when I see people wearing REDBLACKS merch around town they're usually 50+. It's enough of a trend that it sticks out quite a bit if you look for it.

I don't doubt that the CFL's demographic skews older because I can see it with my own eyes. But the idea that millennials don't follow the league is an absurdly Toronto-centric way of looking at it... saying something like that makes about as much sense as me concluding that everyone in Canada is a big CFL fan because I live on the prairies and many people actually fit that description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime (Post 8392820)
What are you talking about? Don't you know the world ends at Steeles Ave? ;)

:haha:

esquire Nov 28, 2018 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8392824)
Saturday gets them going up against NCAA Football and Hockey Night in Canada.

I can't imagine NCAA football is a concern in Canada. More realistically, Saturday is a day where real life happens for a lot of people, errands, yardwork, shopping, studying, socializing, etc. which would likely drive down viewership. I can tell you I hate Saturday afternoon CFL games because it's an extremely inconvenient time... Sundays are far easier to accommodate.

I would imagine that if TSN concluded that it would be better off with a Saturday Grey Cup, it would happen tout suite.

Acajack Nov 28, 2018 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8392824)
Saturday gets them going up against NCAA Football and Hockey Night in Canada.

I doubt NCAA makes that much of a dent in the CFL's fanbase/eyeballs. And even if it does, it's still better than going against the NFL on Sundays. (Not that I am really sold on moving playoff games to Saturday.)

And of course HNIC has "night" in the name. The western playoff game should be over by the time the puck is dropped for the early game. And if they are worried about that they could just move the eastern game to noon and the western game to 3:30.

esquire Nov 28, 2018 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8392837)
And of course HNIC has "night" in the name. The western playoff game should be over by the time the puck is dropped for the early game. And if they are worried about that they could just move the eastern game to noon and the western game to 3:30.

From a fan point of view I would much prefer early starts to playoff games... it usually gets noticeably colder once the sun goes down (on those rare instances where Winnipeg hosts a playoff game). But again, I'm assuming TSN calls the shots on that.

Acajack Nov 28, 2018 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8392841)
From a fan point of view I would much prefer early starts to playoff games... it usually gets noticeably colder once the sun goes down (on those rare instances where Winnipeg hosts a playoff game). But again, I'm assuming TSN calls the shots on that.

I actually thought of this too, but forgot to mention it.

Acajack Nov 28, 2018 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8392808)

Anything we provide from personal experience is going to be anecdotal but I can't help but notice most of the time when I see people wearing REDBLACKS merch around town they're usually 50+. It's enough of a trend that it sticks out quite a bit if you look for it.

I believe you've mentioned going to Redblacks games before, so you can't not know that the crowd there is definitely NOT comprised mainly of people over 50. Not even close. It's very balanced among age groups.

JHikka Nov 28, 2018 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8392835)
I can't imagine NCAA football is a concern in Canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8392837)
I doubt NCAA makes that much of a dent in the CFL's fanbase/eyeballs.

I think you'd be surprised. If the CFL is going to go after people under 30 they're likely to meet some headwind if they're going up against NCAAF. I wouldn't underestimate how many people watch NCAAF in Canada. :hmmm:
Either way, TSN has both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8392891)
I believe you've mentioned going to Redblacks games before, so you can't not know that the crowd there is definitely NOT comprised mainly of people over 50. Not even close. It's very balanced among age groups.

The games themselves are more balanced than their TV audience but it's still a heftier lean when comparing against 67s/Fury/Senators. 67s and Fury are mostly younger families and Senators games are a good mix of everyone (would be younger if a car wasn't required to get to Kanata...)

I did that wood patio thing at a REDBLACKS game this season and although most of the people on the patio were under 40 it is also true that most weren't there for football. Good excuse to drink with something going on in the background. Tickets were free, too, which wasn't too bad. :tup:

Argos crowds were a similar makeup to REDBLACKS, IMO, just half the size.

Acajack Nov 28, 2018 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8392922)

The games themselves are more balanced than their TV audience but it's still a heftier lean when comparing against 67s/Fury/Senators. 67s and Fury are mostly younger families and Senators games are a good mix of everyone (would be younger if a car wasn't required to get to Kanata...)

I did that wood patio thing at a REDBLACKS game this season and although most of the people on the patio were under 40 it is also true that most weren't there for football. Good excuse to drink with something going on in the background. Tickets were free, too, which wasn't too bad. :tup:

Argos crowds were a similar makeup to REDBLACKS, IMO, just half the size.

I was in a paid ticket section for the eastern final.

We were a bunch of 40-something guys, next to us was a rough-looking guy about our age with his wife. Behind us were people in their 50s. In front of me was dad about our age with his son about 10 years old. And next over in our row were some Indo-Canadian guys who looked to be university-aged.


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