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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

Acajack Dec 14, 2017 6:05 PM

The Toronto Maple Leafs were the de facto "national team" for most of "English Canada" for about half a century.

No matter how much they suck(ed) and even with the advent of more clubs here and there, there is no way that that won't leave some kind of enduring legacy.

As for Leafs-centric media coverage, I seriously doubt it's part of a sinister conspiracy to turn the whole country into Leafs Nation.

Blame it instead on two factors:

- laziness and the path of least resistance on the part of the Toronto-based national sports media who won't make an effort to look further than their own backyard.

- decent levels of existing interest in the Leafs all over the country (outside Quebec anyway), which is not really reciprocated: there are way more Leafs fans in Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver than fans of their teams in the GTA.

mistercorporate Dec 14, 2017 6:12 PM

Hmm...it sort of explains the Jays popularity outside Ontario, I wouldn't be surprised if the Raptors develop a similar following sometime in the next couple decades.

osmo Dec 14, 2017 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8018610)
That's interesting. I wonder why other teams and other leagues don't do the same then? Everybody loves a bargain, right?

I don't see why this would be unique to MLS and that somehow they're all raking in tons of revenue way above their expenses, and that somehow this couldn't also apply in other sports as well.

My sense is that it is simply a reflection that most MLS clubs have owners with deep pockets that can absorb these losses as an investment in the future that will eventually pay off.

In most cities (including Toronto for sure) this is probably a pretty sure bet, as the popularity of soccer and of the local club(s) is unlikely to go anywhere but up.

MLS has a very weak players union. They get benefits and a minimum pay but not much else.

Bottom feeder MLS players only make $50K. There was the one story of a TFC bench player who had to ride his bike to games. There is obviously a big reason owners want to keep quiet how much money is actually swirling around.

MLS has been able to keep a lid on the most expensive costs which are your players' salaries. Other leagues such as the NBA have lots of money but unsustainable salary models where bench players can make $8 million per year.

This is not me being pro owners, but Players have to more collectively with their power and earnings. No reason why a Players union can't set up collective investment funds and other revenue tools solely for themselves just as the owners do.

osmo Dec 14, 2017 6:57 PM

Nobody cares about the Leafs outside of Southern Ontario. In Sask or Alberta, nobody talks about them.

It is Toronto propaganda that pushes them onto the nation 100%. Leaf fandom here in Toronto isn't normal, the city is indeed obsessed with the team and it spills over into Toronto media which by default ends up being Canadian media.

mistercorporate Dec 14, 2017 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8018906)
Nobody cares about the Leafs outside of Southern Ontario. In Sask or Alberta, nobody talks about them.

It is Toronto propaganda that pushes them onto the nation 100%. Leaf fandom here in Toronto isn't normal, the city is indeed obsessed with the team and it spills over into Toronto media which by default ends up being Canadian media.

LMAO!! I rest my case *facepalm*

cjones2451 Dec 14, 2017 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8018906)
Nobody cares about the Leafs outside of Southern Ontario. In Sask or Alberta, nobody talks about them.

It is Toronto propaganda that pushes them onto the nation 100%. Leaf fandom here in Toronto isn't normal, the city is indeed obsessed with the team and it spills over into Toronto media which by default ends up being Canadian media.

Transplanted Ontarians (is that a word?) do and if their dads cheered for them they usually do too, I have quite a few Leafs fans at my work, most are from Toronto originally but are west coasters now (except for the Leafs)

Acajack Dec 14, 2017 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8018906)
Nobody cares about the Leafs outside of Southern Ontario. In Sask or Alberta, nobody talks about them.

It is Toronto propaganda that pushes them onto the nation 100%. Leaf fandom here in Toronto isn't normal, the city is indeed obsessed with the team and it spills over into Toronto media which by default ends up being Canadian media.

Obviously you've never been to or even seen highlights from a game where the Oilers, Flames, Canucks or Jets were hosting the Leafs.

They're also close to being as popular as the Senators in many areas of the Ottawa Valley, and pretty much equal with Montreal as the most popular team in Atlantic Canada.

elly63 Dec 14, 2017 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot (Post 8018772)
Someone is still drunk from the TFC celebrations

After reading a couple of these posts regarding the Pan Canadian popularity of the Leafs or lack thereof, I think you're right. Or is Trudeau getting a head start selling the weed.

mistercorporate Dec 14, 2017 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8018931)
After reading a couple of these posts regarding the Pan Canadian popularity of the Leafs or lack thereof, I think you're right. Or is Trudeau getting a head start selling the weed.

So which is it, they're either a regional team or not. I took you guys at word that they're popular everywhere in Anglo-Canada, with someone referencing Alberta in particular. Then Osmo chimes in to say no one in Alberta cares about them. If there's no consensus, then clearly it isn't as obvious as you guys claim.

elly63 Dec 14, 2017 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8018626)
I also don't think anyone has mentioned that sports broadcasting (where on TV, radio or online) is all about advertising dollars.

Good post (the whole thing). Regarding this part, Dave Naylor made an interesting comment about the CFL moving it's season ahead that I hadn't considered.

Ad revenues in November (heading into Christmas) are higher than those in June (heading into summer). There are a whole lotta reasons why the CFL shouldn't move the season ahead. Ambrosie is/was recently visiting ESPN, and he has been in talks with the NFL Network. The only reason to move the season is for a lot of money (relatively speaking) because there are a lot of compelling reasons not to.

elly63 Dec 14, 2017 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate (Post 8018950)
So which is it, they're either a regional team or not. I took you guys at word that they're popular everywhere in Anglo-Canada, with someone referencing Alberta in particular. Then Osmo chimes in to say no one in Alberta cares about them. If there's no consensus, then clearly it isn't as obvious as you guys claim.

It's because you have no historical context. They are popular not because they are jammed down peoples' throats, it's because they are an iconic brand that has deep roots. So feel free to post your emoticons and claim victory for whatever the hell you were babbling about but they're anything but a regional team due to a long and storied history.

Hackslack Dec 14, 2017 7:38 PM

I simply said, "TSN and Sportnet cover absolutely everything Leafs. Being in the West, to me, gets so annoying."

Watch a Flames or Oilers game and there certainly is a spike in Leafs fans in attendance. Others obviously disagree, as there cannot be a consensus whether there are or are not more Leafs fans in the province of Alberta more so than any other team. I'd be willing to bet there is though, with all the easterners that moved to AB when times were good, there is a spike in Leafs fans in AB. I would say, again, in my opinion, because I dislike alomost all things Toronto, Leafs coverage is moreso than any other team out west, hands down, and to me, it gets annoying.

Thankfully soccer, or MLS for that matter, is not so popular outside the 3 biggest markets in Canada, so the TFC coverage was actually tolerable, in my opinion.

drew Dec 14, 2017 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8018928)
Obviously you've never been to or even seen highlights from a game where the Oilers, Flames, Canucks or Jets were hosting the Leafs.

True - but (at least from my Jets games experiences) you get huge (turn-coat) locals wearing the other teams jerseys when the following teams play (in order of visible jerseys, most at the top):

1. Leafs/Habs
2. Bruins/Red Wings
3. Rangers/Hawks
4. Flyers
5. Any of the rest of Canadian teams

There is really no over the top Habs coverage in comparison to what we get in Winnipeg for the Leafs (from HCIN, TSN, SN) - and I would argue the popularity of the Habs here at Jets games is at the very least equal to the Leafs.

esquire Dec 14, 2017 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8018906)
Nobody cares about the Leafs outside of Southern Ontario. In Sask or Alberta, nobody talks about them.

It is Toronto propaganda that pushes them onto the nation 100%. Leaf fandom here in Toronto isn't normal, the city is indeed obsessed with the team and it spills over into Toronto media which by default ends up being Canadian media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew (Post 8018977)
True - but (at least from my Jets games experiences) you get huge (turn-coat) locals wearing the other teams jerseys when the following teams play (in order of visible jerseys, most at the top):

1. Leafs/Habs
2. Bruins/Red Wings
3. Rangers/Hawks
4. Flyers
5. Any of the rest of Canadian teams

There is really no over the top Habs coverage in comparison to what we get in Winnipeg for the Leafs (from HCIN, TSN, SN) - and I would argue the popularity of the Habs here at Jets games is at the very least equal to the Leafs.

This is 100% consistent with what I've seen. Basically the Original Six teams (plus the Flyers who are basically an honourary Original Six team) and the Canadian teams, have noticeable fanbases here.

There is tons of Leafs coverage because the local media has access to loads of cheap, ready-made filler from Toronto. The Habs don't get as much coverage but there seems to be an identity thing at play with them because virtually everyone I know who is identifiably Franco-Manitoban seems to have the Habs as either their 1 or 1A team.

When I was a kid I was a big Leafs fan... I liked them as much as the Jets, but that's because I got to see them on TV practically every Saturday, unlike the Jets. I doubt that's such a big factor anymore... the home team is on TV every game.

Bottom line, I don't think there are tons and tons of Leafs fans, but all the media coverage they get does create an appreciably large fanbase for them in other markets.

Acajack Dec 14, 2017 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew (Post 8018977)
True - but (at least from my Jets games experiences) you get huge (turn-coat) locals wearing the other teams jerseys when the following teams play (in order of visible jerseys, most at the top):

1. Leafs/Habs
2. Bruins/Red Wings
3. Rangers/Hawks
4. Flyers
5. Any of the rest of Canadian teams

There is really no over the top Habs coverage in comparison to what we get in Winnipeg for the Leafs (from HCIN, TSN, SN) - and I would argue the popularity of the Habs here at Jets games is at the very least equal to the Leafs.

The Habs actually have saturation media coverage that is worse (or better, depending on your viewpoint) than the Leafs. It's just that it's inaccessible to most people in Manitoba due to linguistic, technical or other reasons.

There are two 24-hour sports networks (RDS and TVA Sports) who fight over who has the best Habs coverage. Both have their share of actual game broadcasts, and each one broadcasts a 90-minute post-game show after each Habs game whether it's one they are broadcasting or not.

If they're showing some other sport, they'll interrupt that and start the Habs post-game show as soon as the Habs game ends.

When the Habs fired their coach on Valentine's Day this year, not only the two sports networks but also all of the news networks and the three main generalist TV networks (equivalent to CBC, CTV and Global) in French-speaking Canada interrupted their regular programming in the middle of the day to carry the news conference live.

I could give even more examples.

All of this is one of the reasons the Ottawa Senators have so much trouble penetrating the Gatineau market.

drew Dec 14, 2017 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8018994)
The Habs don't get as much coverage but there seems to be an identity thing at play with them because virtually everyone I know who is identifiably Franco-Manitoban seems to have the Habs as either their 1 or 1A team.

One thing doing work on reserves in MB - is that the Habs have a significant and noticeable amount of support within the FN community. I have no idea as to the how or why on that.

JHikka Dec 29, 2017 8:08 PM

~41K is the tickets sold for today's Canada/USA World Juniors game at New Era Field/Ralph Wilson Stadium in Buffalo. There should be an official number once the game is completed.

osmo Dec 29, 2017 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8031462)
~41K is the tickets sold for today's Canada/USA World Juniors game at New Era Field/Ralph Wilson Stadium in Buffalo. There should be an official number once the game is completed.

Are they having all the seats for sale for this?

I've been worried overall as it looks like Buffalo isn't all to crazy for the World Juniors this year and many Canadians didn't make the trip over.

I found the outdoor game to be a gaudy idea. Why the exception for USA and Canada in a supposedly legitimate tournament? All seems dumb and quite tacky IMO.

JHikka Dec 29, 2017 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8031470)
Are they having all the seats for sale for this?

From what I can tell end-zone seats weren't available, along with lower-lower bowl seats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8031470)
I've been worried overall as it looks like Buffalo isn't all to crazy for the World Juniors this year and many Canadians didn't make the trip over.

Yeah, crowds haven't looked too impressive so far this week. We'll have to see what the next week brings. I would have preferred the tournament in St. Louis or Tampa but USA Hockey decided they wanted Buffalo again :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8031470)
I found the outdoor game to be a gaudy idea. Why the exception for USA and Canada in a supposedly legitimate tournament? All seems dumb and quite tacky IMO.

The IIHF has done this before, though. The Men's Worlds have had groups shifted or changed (or teams kept up in the top division) for hosting or game purposes. This isn't anything new.

For me, the spectacle takes away from what should be an otherwise great game. I would have preferred this game at the Sabres Rink on a Friday night packed to the roof rather than in a mostly-full football stadium in the middle of the afternoon. The event takes away from how good of a game it could actually be. They're banking on another meeting in the medal round between Canada & USA, but it's still annoying. Hopefully Hockey Canada doesn't get a similar idea for future tournaments in Canada. The outdoor hockey games in football/baseball stadiums has been played out to death by now.

JHikka Dec 29, 2017 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8031462)
~41K is the tickets sold for today's Canada/USA World Juniors game at New Era Field/Ralph Wilson Stadium in Buffalo. There should be an official number once the game is completed.

44,592 the official attendance. Looked mostly full for what was on sale except for the corners of the uppermost decks.


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