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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Fusey Dec 19, 2009 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4612905)
Dead to you maybe, but it has so much potential to become a vibrant residential neighborhood without a gigantic stadium.

Vibrant for the hobos at Father Joe's, maybe, but not for anyone else.

tdavis Dec 19, 2009 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4614576)
OMG, everyone always reverts back to comparing this potential project to Petco Park. NFL STADIUMS ARE NOT THE SAME AS BASEBALL STADIUMS! Why is that so hard to understand. The size, parking requirement, duration and frequency of use is completely different. Building a stadium there due to the existing parking capacity should not be the leading reason to consider this site.

In reading staplesla's comments he was referring to the development around Petco, not the stadium itself. All of the newer football stadiums though around the country are being built with more of a concern to the surrounding area, instead of just a big hunk of concrete/steel in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by massive parking. Just look for example at the development underway around the new Dallas Cowboys stadium (condos, restaurants, shopping) - it will transform Arlington.

And to imply that football stadiums are less used in comparison to baseball stadiums is a fallacy. This is true when you consider just the games, but football stadiums due to their size hold many more events year-round that baesball stadiums don't - i.e., soccer, rugby, bazars, festivals, flea markets, convetions, auto shows, monster truck stuff.

You need to stop thinking about the stadiums of old.

S.DviaPhilly Dec 19, 2009 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdavis (Post 4615000)
In reading staplesla's comments he was referring to the development around Petco, not the stadium itself. All of the newer football stadiums though around the country are being built with more of a concern to the surrounding area, instead of just a big hunk of concrete/steel in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by massive parking. Just look for example at the development underway around the new Dallas Cowboys stadium (condos, restaurants, shopping) - it will transform Arlington.

And to imply that football stadiums are less used in comparison to baseball stadiums is a fallacy. This is true when you consider just the games, but football stadiums due to their size hold many more events year-round that baesball stadiums don't - i.e., soccer, rugby, bazars, festivals, flea markets, convetions, auto shows, monster truck stuff.

You need to stop thinking about the stadiums of old.

Well Stated!!

Derek Dec 20, 2009 9:04 AM

x2

kpexpress Dec 20, 2009 9:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdavis (Post 4615000)

You need to stop thinking about the stadiums of old.

Notice how the list of characteristics first listed size, parking requirements, then frequency of use.

I'm sure they will sell it with the possibility of other uses, and if they can use it for more uses than that's great. The core of my argument is that the scale of this project does not match the scale of the neighborhood (walkability, street-scale, etc.).

kpexpress Dec 20, 2009 9:25 AM

Can someone please open the discussion to comparing this possible EV football stadium to other urban stadiums that were built within an urban grid similar to San Diego? I hear people talk about Dallas - this stadium is not in a downtown area zoned for residential mixed use. Pitsburgh, Seattle, etc. Can anyone else list some downtown stadiums within a grid zoned for mixed use

mongoXZ Dec 20, 2009 5:56 PM

The new Cowboy Stadium isn't a good example. They've built it in an area equivalent to our Mission Valley at a time when "San Diego Stadium" aka Jack Murphy Stadium was brand new. Nothing much in that area at the time but now it's suburbia heaven.

Baltimore put an NFL stadium in an area similar to where the Chargers want to put theirs in downtown. In the further outskirts, near the freeways, next to the baseball stadium. I've never been to Baltimore but we all know that city's success in revitalizing their city center and waterfront.
http://www.stadiumpanoramics.com/ima...ium_aerial.jpg

If anything I think the new East Village stadium would give reasons to bring people to that part of downtown and surrounding areas INCLUDING Barrio Logan. Blocking access to Barrio? I think not. I can't imagine the stadium NOT being built and seeing a vibrant Little Italy like neighborhood. I don't see the same kind of development (hotels/mixed use/offices) happening there w/out the stadium other than some ho-hum mediocre soon-to-be run down 4 story(max) housing.

mongoXZ Dec 20, 2009 6:05 PM

As for the parking situation I'm sure public transportation will be heavily pushed (excellent thing, right?). The Padres will share their many parking garages in the area. Hilton, Hyatt, Horton Plaza all have parking space available. More people walking around to the stadium patronizing the surrounding businesses.

New parking garages? Probably one more. No tailgate parks. Use your friggin backyards.

Marina_Guy Dec 20, 2009 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4615673)
Can someone please open the discussion to comparing this possible EV football stadium to other urban stadiums that were built within an urban grid similar to San Diego? I hear people talk about Dallas - this stadium is not in a downtown area zoned for residential mixed use. Pitsburgh, Seattle, etc. Can anyone else list some downtown stadiums within a grid zoned for mixed use

Thank you. Obviously there aren't any successful examples. I think one could look to soccer stadiums in Europe or some experiments in Asia.

Right now there is only an emotional argument for this stadium downtown. Our visionless leaders see only a stadium as the use of $200 million in redevelopment dollars. That is very sad.

What is going on with the North Embarcadero these days... NOTHING. That is even sadder.

tdavis Dec 21, 2009 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4615673)
Can someone please open the discussion to comparing this possible EV football stadium to other urban stadiums that were built within an urban grid similar to San Diego? I hear people talk about Dallas - this stadium is not in a downtown area zoned for residential mixed use. Pitsburgh, Seattle, etc. Can anyone else list some downtown stadiums within a grid zoned for mixed use

Balitmore Ravens M&T Bank Stadium - wonderful growth to the area.
Nashville Titans LP Field - one block across the Cumberland River (huge development planned to surround the stadium - condos, shopping). The old warehouse and electrical plant is currently undergoing environmental clean-up to get ready for the development.
Indy Colts Lucas Oil Field - 4 blocks south of capital building.

visionary Dec 22, 2009 12:58 AM

Urban Stadiums
 
Here is a list of some Urban Stadiums that I have visited:
  • Denver
    Seattle
    Baltimore
    New Orleans
    Cleveland
    Cincinnati
    Jacksonville
    Pitt
    Indy
    Tenn
    Carolina
Most of these places are terrific, and SD has the potential to be more thoughtfully worked into the city than any of them.

staplesla Dec 22, 2009 1:21 AM

I've been to many of the downtown football stadiums and was impressed with each. The stadiums of old, stuck in the middle of no-where, and surrounded by parking lots are a thing of the past. And I agree with visionary's comment that SD has the greatest potential. It's too early for me to say I'm all for it, considering we are still awaiting studies/design, but in general I think downtown is the best solution.

If it doesn't happen this time I fear that we'll lose the Chargers to LA. And though I'm personally not a Chargers fan, this would be a huge loss for the city in terms of revenue a professional team brings in, etc.

sandiegodweller Dec 22, 2009 3:34 AM

[QUOTE=tdavis;4615000]In reading staplesla's comments he was referring to the development around Petco, not the stadium itself. All of the newer football stadiums though around the country are being built with more of a concern to the surrounding area, instead of just a big hunk of concrete/steel in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by massive parking. Just look for example at the development underway around the new Dallas Cowboys stadium (condos, restaurants, shopping) - it will transform Arlington.
QUOTE]

Probably another decade away. By that time, the NFL will declare that the Cowboys stadium is inadequate.

Arlington will have to wait for Glorypark development near stadiums

09:11 AM CDT on Thursday, May 15, 2008
By JEFF MOSIER and STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
jmosier@dallasnews.com; stevebrown@dallasnews.com

ARLINGTON – Arlington's half-billion dollar answer to Victory Park has been put on hold because of the troubled financial and retail markets, billionaire Tom Hicks said Wednesday.

Mr. Hicks, owner of the Texas Rangers and Dallas Stars, said Hicks Holdings has been unable to secure financing for the 1.2 million-square- foot Glorypark. The giant mixed-use development was scheduled to open in March 2010.

"We're in the most difficult credit crunch I've seen the last 20 years," Mr. Hicks said.

Also, co-developer Steiner + Associates was unable to get a firm commitment from an anchor tenant after months of negotiating with Dillard's department stores, Mr. Hicks said.

Mr. Hicks' announcement comes just a week after developer Ross Perot Jr. confirmed that his Hillwood firm has delayed construction of the 43-story Mandarin Oriental hotel and condo tower in Dallas' Victory project.

Mr. Perot said the decision not to go forward with the project was due in part to the challenging financial markets. Mr. Hicks is also a partner in the overall Victory development.

Since last summer, lenders have increased requirements for virtually all types of real estate loans. And some debt sources that previously financed office buildings, hotels, high-rise condos and such have exited the market.

The so - called credit crunch is expected to significantly reduce the amount of speculative development this year in Dallas and cities across the nation.

Construction was scheduled to start this spring on the Glorypark project adjacent to The Rangers Ballpark in Arlington and a few blocks from the Dallas Cowboys new $1.1 billion stadium. The completion of Glorypark, which would have included restaurants, retail, office space and residential, had been delayed at least twice previously. The project was to be built on the parking lots to the south and west of the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

A special taxing district would have been used to pay for parking garages to replace the surface lots. Mr. Hicks said he'll work on a new, scaled-back version of Glorypark that could be built gradually instead of in large phases.

A previously announced 310-room Westin Hotel developed by Mr. Hicks and Gatehouse Capital should still open in time for the 2011 Super Bowl at the new Cowboys stadium. A 140-room Aloft hotel, which was announced at the same time as the Westin, has been cut from the project, at least for now, Mr. Hicks said.

tdavis Dec 22, 2009 5:28 PM

That news though has nothing to do with the development itself, but is a reaction to the economic downturn. One the economy comes back, these projects will most certainly move forward.

SDDTProspector Dec 22, 2009 7:06 PM

Noticed that there are some new projects that seemed previously dead, alive again... here are some projects that I haven't seen any activity in years, until now.... Is this a sign of things to come???

india & beech - I was sure this project was dead, but I web page had pop'ed up a month or two ago.... still the same design...

http://www.indiaandbeech.com/

Columbia Tower - A nice mixed use project, with 2 hotels/ office / residential. To be completed in 2011???

here is some pics

http://www.acm-architects.com/img/PH...%2024x36-4.jpg

http://www.acm-architects.com/img/PH...ght%20shot.jpg

Vista Azul and Vista Verda - I don't know if this one is in Downtown but it would be nice if it was.....

http://www.acm-architects.com/img/PH...ghrise-sky.jpg

kpexpress Dec 22, 2009 10:22 PM

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/gover...cc4c03286.html

staplesla Dec 23, 2009 12:45 AM

Nice find SDDTProspector!

SDDTProspector Dec 23, 2009 2:11 AM

I was always interesting in these two small developments, I think they will really postively impact the view driving into Downtown SD from the 163 south...

It will have a nice stepping effect of a 9 story hotel, to a 12 story hotel, to a 24 story condo, finally across the steet Vantage Point..

The 9 story Staybrige Hotel,is the bottom image, "it might be cancelled though, not on CCDC anymore"

http://www.jwdainc.com/images/2008AprNewsImage.jpg

Then the 12 Story SpringHill Suite, I am pretty shure this one going foward.....

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7171959_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4751512_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3834207_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5080655_n.jpg

On a side note, I really think this development will look nice downtown, even though it is low-income they made it look a little up-scale.. Agree?

That area of Broadway, really needs some help....I don't see ghostbuilder building their 500Ft condo, across the street anytime soon!!

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyI...20Broadway.jpg

staplesla Dec 23, 2009 6:02 AM

I'm all for the these developments and the progress. I have a concern though about building new projects right now when we have an abundant amount of vacant residential and commercial space. Just curious of your thoughts.

SDDTProspector Dec 23, 2009 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla (Post 4619832)
I'm all for the these developments and the progress. I have a concern though about building new projects right now when we have an abundant amount of vacant residential and commercial space. Just curious of your thoughts.

Well I assume the market for hotels in San Diego is still strong, if they can fill them, build them!!!! The two hotel in cortex hill area are small under 130 rooms each and are the extended stay variety. It seems the only development in the pipeline for the next two years are hotels...... It funny how districts within downtown get hot. Right now it seems cortez hill is getting the most proposals, they actually might get built within the next year too!!!

I am actually happy that the developer Chhatrala Group is creating more realistic/ attractive designs.. They have toned down there designs:slob:

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uni..._1m7tower.html


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