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jmt18325 Feb 5, 2016 5:26 AM

It's also to do with Calgary being the hub for the prairies in terms of air travel. Air Canada and Westjet putting flights there has really helped them (I'm perfectly fine with that, btw). Oh, and Calgary's enormous wealth. I'm sure that helped.

Dominion301 Feb 5, 2016 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 7325426)
Compare the US (or Canadian) cities within a day drive of both airports and you will get your answer.
Not to take anything away from Calgary tough, YYC has had incredible growth.

That's exactly it or why Ottawa, which is virtually the same size as Calgary, is at 4.6 million vs. YYC's 15 million. Ottawa's within a day's drive of approx. 100 million people and has the 3rd busiest train station in the country (actually there's two stations within the city), whereas Calgary's in the middle of nowhere and with no rail service, hence, apart from Edmonton, has the need to fly to get just about anywhere of any significance.

Apart from CUN, Calgary's air service is the envy of all cities under 2 million population in North America...or just about anywhere for that matter. It's in the perfect geographic location to be a major regional hub. It's also why YHZ's at 3.7 million - it's been a regional hub for decades and is relatively isolated, despite the city's population being a mere 450k it's pax count is on par with Winnipeg, a city almost double the size and is only about a million pax behind YOW.

cyeg66 Feb 5, 2016 3:37 PM

<sigh> You guys took the bait. We're all well aware of why their passenger stats are what they are. It's not meant as a slight against YUL, and it's not because Calgary is as economically important (and its citizens 3x more weather than Montrealers) as Montreal that their numbers are virtually equal. But I must say, a little part of me dies every time this same old argument is rolled out.

Just.....let......it......be...... Pretty please?

Bigtime Feb 5, 2016 3:40 PM

Hainan Airlines officially announces YYC-PEK, starting June 30th 3x weekly (will increase to 4x weekly come October). Flights to be operated by the 787-8.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...medium=twitter

Edit: I second what cyeg66 posted above. I tire of this argument coming around every now and then. As a YYC spotter I am more jealous of all the different tails YUL gets, so I'm quite happy that we are getting a new one with Hainan.

SkahHigh Feb 5, 2016 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 7325672)
so I'm quite happy that we are getting a new one with Hainan.

And quite a nice one with that!

thenoflyzone Feb 5, 2016 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 7325667)
<sigh> You guys took the bait. We're all well aware of why their passenger stats are what they are...... But I must say, a little part of me dies every time this same old argument is rolled out.

Just.....let......it......be...... Pretty please?

Obviously not everyone
..
..
..

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedog (Post 7325326)
I am always amazed that YYC is even close to YUL in numbers.


As long as people ask why, others will answer. As simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 7325672)
I second what cyeg66 posted above. I tire of this argument coming around every now and then. As a YYC spotter I am more jealous of all the different tails YUL gets, so I'm quite happy that we are getting a new one with Hainan.

It's not an argument. It's a fact.

Bigtime Feb 5, 2016 4:35 PM

Yes there are facts about it all, but people want to make it an argument. I just wanna look at new liveries in my home town. :)

Riise Feb 5, 2016 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7325738)
Obviously not everyone
..
..
..




As long as people ask why, others will answer. As simple as that.

Technically, the poster didn't raise a question but rather made a statement.

thenoflyzone Feb 5, 2016 5:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7325773)
Technically, the poster didn't raise a question but rather made a statement.

Sure.

Point is, he needs to understand that city population has no direct or linear relationship with its airport passenger volume.

it's different for virtually every city/airport pair, from YYC, to YUL, to ATL, to YHZ etc...Due to several factors. So as long as someone doesn't know why that is and is amazed by it, others more in the know will fill them in. And that is the whole point of forums such as these.

Thenoflyzone

cyeg66 Feb 5, 2016 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7325795)
Sure.

Point is, he needs to understand that city population has no direct or linear relationship with its airport passenger volume.

it's different for virtually every city/airport pair, from YYC, to YUL, to ATL, to YHZ etc...Due to several factors. So as long as someone doesn't know why that is and is amazed by it, others more in the know will fill them in. And that is the whole point of forums such as these.

Thenoflyzone

Understandably, people on the defensive feel the need to respond. My bad.

speedog Feb 5, 2016 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7325795)
Sure.

Point is, he needs to understand that city population has no direct or linear relationship with its airport passenger volume.

it's different for virtually every city/airport pair, from YYC, to YUL, to ATL, to YHZ etc...Due to several factors. So as long as someone doesn't know why that is and is amazed by it, others more in the know will fill them in. And that is the whole point of forums such as these.

Thenoflyzone

In all honesty, my eyes do not gloss over at the sight of new tails or airport statistics one way or another. It was a simple statement by myself looking at the numbers and while some get quite up in arms and such when either YUL or YYC pushes past the other, I don't really give a damn.

I am well aware there are a lot of dynamics at play here but one still can't blindly ignore the fact that Montreal's CMA population is over three times as much as Calgary's. Personally, I would expect Calgary to be down somewhere around 10,000,000, closer to YEG's numbers but after poking around the YEG thread on Edmonton's subforum, it is quite apparent that some things are weighted in favour of YYC.

Never the less, I would still expect YUL to be more - sorry if I got anyone's knickers in a knot.

Riise Feb 5, 2016 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7325795)
So as long as someone doesn't know why that is and is amazed by it, others more in the know will fill them in. And that is the whole point of forums such as these.

The way in which this knowledge is often shared is one of the reasons why forums such as these devolve into bickering.

VIce Feb 5, 2016 8:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 7325574)
That's exactly it or why Ottawa, which is virtually the same size as Calgary, is at 4.6 million vs. YYC's 15 million. Ottawa's within a day's drive of approx. 100 million people and has the 3rd busiest train station in the country (actually there's two stations within the city), whereas Calgary's in the middle of nowhere and with no rail service, hence, apart from Edmonton, has the need to fly to get just about anywhere of any significance.

Apart from CUN, Calgary's air service is the envy of all cities under 2 million population in North America...or just about anywhere for that matter. It's in the perfect geographic location to be a major regional hub. It's also why YHZ's at 3.7 million - it's been a regional hub for decades and is relatively isolated, despite the city's population being a mere 450k it's pax count is on par with Winnipeg, a city almost double the size and is only about a million pax behind YOW.

And even then, the Edmonton-Calgary traffic alone warrant, what, 150 weekly flights?

thenoflyzone Feb 5, 2016 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 7325826)
Understandably, people on the defensive feel the need to respond. My bad.

I don't see anyone who is on the defensive. Simply illustrating a fact. That is all. This thread was pretty objective until you started mentioning that a "part of you is dying"

cyeg66 Feb 5, 2016 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7326104)
I don't see anyone who is on the defensive. Simply illustrating a fact. That is all. This thread was pretty objective until you started mentioning that a "part of you is dying"

Call it what you like. Sounds pretty defensive i.e. "providing justification" for YUL's comparatively low #'s to YYC's high numbers, any and every time the two are mentioned in the same sentence. Now go ahead, remind me how this is a forum and that's what they're intended for (all of them to which you contribute and drum out the same, canned (not incorrect, I'll add) response(s) to the same question). That's clearly your prerogative, don't let me get in the way of you typing the same shit, same pile, over and over. Copy and paste works wonders, btw... In doing so, you're positioning yourself as low hanging fruit. As G.W. Bush once put it, "we're gonna smoke them out of their holes". You get "smoked out" of yours every time, and I mean every time, YUL and (gasp!) YYC are compared. In case you missed it, I "talk up" YUL when I can. You of all can probably understand why I might.

Fact is, you won't change speedog's opinion/assertion/amazement that the two are identical (and have been for over 20 years, for countless reasons) in passenger throughput because at the end of the day, they ARE equal in throughout. Speedog's perfectly entitled to be surprised by that fact. The reasons behind WHY they are is irrelevant. They just ARE. Trying to explain WHY they ARE suggests you feel the need to go on the defensive. "But..but..but, it's BECAUSE blah blah blah....."

Go ahead and fill me in on how I'm wrong. :rolleyes: I know you're like a dog with a bone. Lol, you mentioned the "dying inside" part because you knew I was singling out your role in this. It was a pretty obvious euphemism (to me, and others, I think), but maybe I should go see my doctor, just to be sure.

thenoflyzone Feb 6, 2016 2:44 AM

^

Dude, take it easy man....you're gonna give yourself a heart attack.
you do realize that i'm not the one that answered speedog right.

Nicko999, jmt18325 and Dominion301 are the ones that did. I wasn't even going to post anything, until a part of you died, that is....;)

Bigtime Feb 6, 2016 2:31 PM

This thread is tearing Nav Canada apart. ;)

trofirhen Feb 6, 2016 11:06 PM

I know YVR has a large % of overseas (pred'm' Asian flights) but a bit lower than YUL, which has the highest % of overseas pax, even more than YYZ, which is 2nd place.
But it still amazes me that it's the second largest airport in the country !!!
Nevertheless, It makes me shake my head a bit, that YUL is almost 4th place, YYC gaining. At one time YUL was one of the 3 busiest airports in North America, with JFK and ORD, I believe. This of course was due to Dorval, at that time, being THE major jumping-off point (though it does retain its foreign pax % and exotic destination roster right up there -
ex: Casablanca and Algiers, as well as Lyon and Toulouse!)
Well, things do change. Gander was once the busiest Transatlantic airport (and can retain its pride as bieng the largest air traffic control gound station in the world!!)
Toronto becoming another Western Dubai or Istanbul, YVR surging ahead, Canada is, overall, doing well in the aviation world, it would seem. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Blader Feb 7, 2016 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen (Post 7327043)
I know YVR has a large % of overseas (pred'm' Asian flights) but a bit lower than YUL, which has the highest % of overseas pax, even more than YYZ, which is 2nd place.
But it still amazes me that it's the second largest airport in the country !!!
Nevertheless, It makes me shake my head a bit, that YUL is almost 4th place, YYC gaining. At one time YUL was one of the 3 busiest airports in North America, with JFK and ORD, I believe. This of course was due to Dorval, at that time, being THE major jumping-off point (though it does retain its foreign pax % and exotic destination roster right up there -
ex: Casablanca and Algiers, as well as Lyon and Toulouse!)
Well, things do change. Gander was once the busiest Transatlantic airport (and can retain its pride as bieng the largest air traffic control gound station in the world!!)
Toronto becoming another Western Dubai or Istanbul, YVR surging ahead, Canada is, overall, doing well in the aviation world, it would seem. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Decent post by you. Historically, in 1967, Expo, Montréal was Canadas largest and premier city and the gateway to Europe. By fiat, foreign carriers only had access to Montréal. Montréal was killed by the two airport system in 1974, international Mirabel, and domestic, Dorval.

Those were heady years. Supersonic travel, Concorde and SST, mega airports, and dreams.
The first oil shoku killed supersonics and domestic to international connections from Dorval to Mirabel killed Montréal. Foreign carriers demanded access to Toronto and got it. One airport feed.
I wonder if Mirabel had never been built would Montréal reign supreme? We will never know.

Riise Feb 7, 2016 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 7327072)
I wonder if Mirabel had never been built would Montréal reign supreme? We will never know.

Aside from those that can remember, I don't think all too many people know that Montreal use to be "the" Canadian city. If Mirabel was never built, I think losing the Canadian crown would also have had an impact. However, it is possible that airlines could have trenched in and the impact would not have been as great as the impact from splitting domestic and international.


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