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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

sandiegodweller Apr 9, 2008 3:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teiwaz (Post 3471730)
...and what about the latest appraisals? Are they worth nothing as well? Two separate companies have appraised the project and both have come in around 55-60 mil. It seems like 'sandiegodweller' is siding with the sharks who swim around looking for injured fish and then challenge them in court! Again, april 16th is the date set for BK court and we will see the truth.
I hope Cosmo can pull it off as it's a classy development, better then what Bosa does which is boring and out dated already!


I have a great idea for you. Take your appraisals to a money source that is highly experienced at reviewing real estate appraislas to determine value (Countrywide, Ameriquest, New Century, Citigroup, UBS, Ditech, Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual, etc.) and see if you can get them to lend you 50% of the appraised value ($27.5 - $30 million). The land will be the collateral for the loan. Show up at the bankruptcy proceedings on the 16th with a Cashiers Check (or a briefcase full of cash to make a really grand statement). I will guarantee you that Cisterra will sell the note for $27.5 million. You can then put a big FOR SALE sign on the property (make sure to say "Includes approved plans!") for $60 million. Maybe some rich guy will be going to a game at Petco Park and write an offer.

I just gave you a $30 million idea!

You can take a portion of your $30 million and buy my condo next door to CosmoSquare. It appraised for over $800,000 in 2006 but I will let it go for $650,000.

You can flip it for $800,000 (I still have the appraisal) and pick up another $150,000. I know that is chump change after your first $30 million but you can use it for "walking around money".

teiwaz Apr 9, 2008 3:27 AM

Never-mind. Good luck to you and your depreciating condo and thanks for the sarcasm. If you have any actual professional insight on this then please but if you want to just bang away at things you think you know (entitlements aren't worth anything) then have fun. I hope Cosmo blocks your view!

sandiegodweller Apr 9, 2008 6:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teiwaz (Post 3472107)
Never-mind. Good luck to you and your depreciating condo and thanks for the sarcasm. If you have any actual professional insight on this then please but if you want to just bang away at things you think you know (entitlements aren't worth anything) then have fun. I hope Cosmo blocks your view!

Obviously you have some sort of financial interest in this project. Are you one of the several limited partners who is owed money on the 2nd or 3rd TD? Your comments regarding Steven Black (Cisterra) make me think that you are in danger of being wiped out in foreclosure.

In all honesty, what do you really expect that the bankruptcy judge will do on the 16th? Are you hoping that he stops the foreclosure so the property can be marketed?

As far as the property (55,000 sf) being worth $1000 psf as an unimproved lot, I haven't seen any comparable sales that approach 50% of that number.

teiwaz Apr 9, 2008 4:21 PM

Steven Black is SDG, not Cisterra... if the judge is shown a legit presentation of new lenders and appraised value of the project along with the shady intentions of Black by buying the note to just steal the land a month later then yes I expect the judge to do the right thing. If the evidence is there why would the jusge throw all the hard work and all the investors, large and small to the wayside. It's called justice.

SDCAL Apr 9, 2008 4:27 PM

I admit I am a novice in this area as I don't have any connection to real estate, development, architecture, venture capital, and the like, but I would assume a plot of land with comprehensive design plans would be at least a little more valuable than something with no plans whatsoever?

Even if major structural/use changes were to be done by a new buyer, wouldn't certain foundation work done in the plans save money and re-work?

keg92101 Apr 9, 2008 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3472370)
Obviously you have some sort of financial interest in this project. Are you one of the several limited partners who is owed money on the 2nd or 3rd TD? Your comments regarding Steven Black (Cisterra) make me think that you are in danger of being wiped out in foreclosure.

In all honesty, what do you really expect that the bankruptcy judge will do on the 16th? Are you hoping that he stops the foreclosure so the property can be marketed?

As far as the property (55,000 sf) being worth $1000 psf as an unimproved lot, I haven't seen any comparable sales that approach 50% of that number.


Doing the math, I've got to agree. Maybe land with full entitlements in place could be $300-$350, but not $1000.

sandiego_urban Apr 9, 2008 10:08 PM

^^^Can't we all just get along? :D


Here's a quick blurb from this week's SD Business Journal regarding Horton Plaza's planned makeover. Let's hope they release renderings soon. :tup:


Horton Plaza Schedules Remodel?

Sources in local government circles report the long-awaited redo of Westfield’s near quarter-century-old Horton Plaza is expected to begin this fall, most likely in November. Those same sources say the first piece of the mall targeted for a makeover is the entrance next to the Balboa Theatre on Fifth Avenue and around homeless haven, the urban park fronting Broadway across from The US Grant Hotel. Westfield apparently wants to provide stores on the sidewalk level to give visitors a more urban street-shopping experience …

sandiegodweller Apr 10, 2008 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 3473011)
I admit I am a novice in this area as I don't have any connection to real estate, development, architecture, venture capital, and the like, but I would assume a plot of land with comprehensive design plans would be at least a little more valuable than something with no plans whatsoever?

Even if major structural/use changes were to be done by a new buyer, wouldn't certain foundation work done in the plans save money and re-work?

Yes, I was being too simplistic. Certain work product (ALTA Survey, Phase I environmental assessment, traffic study, paleo study, etc.) is valuable. The entitlements and building plans are only valuable if someone wants to build the building as it was approved.

For example, if someone wanted to sell you a lot in Barrio Logan that is a fully entitled project with all plans approved for a 10,000 sf ultra luxury mansion, would you pay a premium for those plans knowing full well that you would never build that product? On top of that the current owner, as part of the approval process has agreed to put in a stop light, repave the entire street block and relocate all of the underground utilities thereby adding huge onsite and offsite improvement costs.

You might be interested in the land but the entitlements/approvals have added ZERO value since no one would build the project as it is currently designed and approved.

Cosmo Square is composed of two products that no one wants to build in downtown San Diego for the near future, residential condos and hotel rooms.
On top of that, they agreed to move and rebuild the fire station at the corner of 8th and J for $5 million as part of their approvals. Therefore, since no one would build that project in the near future, the approvals have little or no value.

I am sure that CCDC is anxious to see that lot developed sometime soon so they will probably rubber stamp their approval for another high profile project as long as it conforms to the current Floor Area Ratio and parking requirements. They may be more stringent on getting comfortable with the developers financial capability.

sandiegodweller Apr 10, 2008 1:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teiwaz (Post 3472996)
Steven Black is SDG, not Cisterra... if the judge is shown a legit presentation of new lenders and appraised value of the project along with the shady intentions of Black by buying the note to just steal the land a month later then yes I expect the judge to do the right thing. If the evidence is there why would the jusge throw all the hard work and all the investors, large and small to the wayside. It's called justice.

You are correct. Steve Black formed a new LLC to buy the note, SDG Left Field LLC. Cisterra doesn't have anything to do with this transaction.

Your anger seems misdirected. Why are you blaming the note buyer? Liberty Bankers Life Insurance Company was the one who decided to sell the note in December. You should be pissed at Simplon (Evans and Scull) who got you into this predicament by borrowing way too much money on this project. They borrowed at least $42 million (according to court records). If they only paid $26 million for the dirt, where did the other $16 million go?

With any luck, the judge will order the property to be marketed and sold. If this happens, hopefully for you (if you are Scripps) the property sells for more than $18.1 million and you see some small portion of your $13.5 million. If you are behind Scripps, I wouldn't hold my breath.

bmfarley Apr 10, 2008 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3472074)
I have a great idea for you. Take your appraisals to a money source that is highly experienced at reviewing real estate appraislas to determine value (Countrywide, Ameriquest, New Century, Citigroup, UBS, Ditech, Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual, etc.) and see if you can get them to lend you 50% of the appraised value ($27.5 - $30 million).

That's the funniest thing I've read here in a while! Emphasis added.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3472074)
You can take a portion of your $30 million and buy my condo next door to CosmoSquare. It appraised for over $800,000 in 2006 but I will let it go for $650,000.

Another one!

Imo, it seems ridiculous to believe a square foot of land downtown is worth much more than $400. Even near the ballpark with approved plans. Could the buildable space above being playing a larger role in that $55m-$60m estimate?

IconRPCV Apr 10, 2008 3:01 PM

Hey has anyone heard any news regarding the market that is going into the TR Produce building?

sandiegodweller Apr 10, 2008 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IconRPCV (Post 3475413)
Hey has anyone heard any news regarding the market that is going into the TR Produce building?

I saw the brokers in the space on Opening Day at Petco. They said that the Wal-Mart project is still going. The working name is something simple like "Marketplace".

The space looks smaller than a 7-11.

I saw that OneWorld Foods on 6th is dark. Anyone know the story (besides the obvious economic slowdown)?

sandiegodweller Apr 10, 2008 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3141840)
The project that has NOT started yet (on the site of the cigar shop) is going to be a Marriott Renaissance Hotel.

The project currently under construction is going to be another Marriott brand.

The old cigar shop site/parking lot that is approved for a Marriott Renaissance was just fenced in with a nice painted chain link fence. They added a new guard shack at the entrance from 6th, across from Solamar.

I just spoke with the developer (his name is on the existing sign) at Opening Day for the Padres. He said that his group leased the ground to the same hotel group building the Marriott south along J Street. He thought that they would be breaking ground soon. I don't think they would have spent $25,000+ on the parking lot if they were breaking ground soon.

Marina_Guy Apr 11, 2008 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3476722)
The old cigar shop site/parking lot that is approved for a Marriott Renaissance was just fenced in with a nice painted chain link fence. They added a new guard shack at the entrance from 6th, across from Solamar.

I just spoke with the developer (his name is on the existing sign) at Opening Day for the Padres. He said that his group leased the ground to the same hotel group building the Marriott south along J Street. He thought that they would be breaking ground soon. I don't think they would have spent $25,000+ on the parking lot if they were breaking ground soon.

This is horrible to hear. That whole process was such a disaster. CCDC really should be ashamed of themselves for this. Buy the land back and put some grass on it and call it ED Park (eminent domain). I am sure you could sell the naming rights in the future to a liquor company.

Marina_Guy Apr 11, 2008 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 3473934)
^^^Can't we all just get along? :D


Here's a quick blurb from this week's SD Business Journal regarding Horton Plaza's planned makeover. Let's hope they release renderings soon. :tup:


Horton Plaza Schedules Remodel?

Sources in local government circles report the long-awaited redo of Westfield’s near quarter-century-old Horton Plaza is expected to begin this fall, most likely in November. Those same sources say the first piece of the mall targeted for a makeover is the entrance next to the Balboa Theatre on Fifth Avenue and around homeless haven, the urban park fronting Broadway across from The US Grant Hotel. Westfield apparently wants to provide stores on the sidewalk level to give visitors a more urban street-shopping experience …

It will be interesting to see if this happens. Horton Plaza looks more and more like second rate mall every day. I did hear Nordstroms was given a chunk of change to remodel if they re-upped their lease... (They did) They had some drawings a year ago, but they only thing I see happening there is a remodel of the Cafe.

keg92101 Apr 11, 2008 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3475747)
I saw the brokers in the space on Opening Day at Petco. They said that the Wal-Mart project is still going. The working name is something simple like "Marketplace".

The space looks smaller than a 7-11.

I saw that OneWorld Foods on 6th is dark. Anyone know the story (besides the obvious economic slowdown)?

The space is 11,000 SF. I've never seen a 7-11 that big, but hey, what do I know?

sandiego_urban Apr 11, 2008 6:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3475747)
I saw that OneWorld Foods on 6th is dark. Anyone know the story (besides the obvious economic slowdown)?

While checking out the new Tweet Street park on Cortez Hill, I chatted with a local resident who mentioned that it had recently closed. He sounded pretty bummed about it and said he'd miss their deli most of all. I bet this place would do well in Little Italy, don't you think?



And speaking of Tweet Street......here are a few pics. It's tiny, but pleasant.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4952.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4954.jpg

Cortez Hill is looking good
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4956.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4969.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4966.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4965.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4971.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4963.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_4974.jpg

sandiego_urban Apr 11, 2008 6:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina_Guy (Post 3476871)
This is horrible to hear. That whole process was such a disaster. CCDC really should be ashamed of themselves for this. Buy the land back and put some grass on it and call it ED Park (eminent domain). I am sure you could sell the naming rights in the future to a liquor company.

I totally agree. I used to go to Gran Havana before they tore it down. Why not turn it into a park? How cool would it be to have our own Rittenhouse Square (in Philly) smack dab in the middle of the Gaslamp?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina_Guy (Post 3476871)
It will be interesting to see if this happens. Horton Plaza looks more and more like second rate mall every day. I did hear Nordstroms was given a chunk of change to remodel if they re-upped their lease... (They did) They had some drawings a year ago, but they only thing I see happening there is a remodel of the Cafe.

I'm thinking it will happen because Westfield has plans to renovate all of their malls in the county. I was at Plaza Bonita in National City recently and saw big changes there, such as an H & M store that was under construction and a new multi-screen theater complex.

Let's face it, Horton is 20 years old and is in definite need of a makeover. I'm just hoping they tear down the former Robinson's-May building as part of the renovation because that thing is ugly!

sandiegodweller Apr 12, 2008 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3090901)
If they can pull off something like the Ivy, it might work. The problem is that the Hard Rock will steal a lot of the nightlife for the near future.

How many hipsters are in downtown San Diego to support all of the high-end bars and clubs?

Apparently the hipsters aren't as prevalent as everyone thought.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...-1b12club.html

“Opening a Stingaree these days would scare the (heck) out of me,” Brennan said with a wry smile. “If you don't have 800 people in there, it looks empty. Any of those gigantic places really have to fight to make sure they get market share, and these days there is not enough to go around for four or five megaclubs.”

“There are still a lot of people out there with money,” he said. “But everyone is fighting for a select few, because it's few and far between who can go out and spend $1,800 on a liquor tab for the night."

PeterSmith Apr 12, 2008 7:59 PM

It's funny how some cities' threads can make you want to pack your bags and move there immediately. This is one of those for me. I had no idea all this was going on in San Diego. Are there any future skyline renderings floating around?

Although, that Shapery Park Tower renderings is very...obvious...


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