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Nexus6 May 30, 2004 11:53 AM

FRANKFURT - Project Update
A 250m high tower called "Marieninsel" is planned on the site of T11 which will have to be teared down. Investors are Deka-Bank, Degi GmbH and DB Real Estate. Date will be 2010.

Jai-C May 30, 2004 11:55 AM

Nice proposal!

Thanks for scanning the picture.

R@ptor May 30, 2004 1:12 PM

That skyscraper has quite a similarity with the Eureka Tower which is currently u/c in Melbourne, Australia.

But anyway it would be great if Frankfurt would get its third 250m skyscraper

tim May 30, 2004 1:44 PM

thats what I thought too - a bit of a rip-off really. but as far as I understood this is just the preliminary design.

Samuel May 30, 2004 5:13 PM

250m is amazing!

stanford May 30, 2004 6:23 PM

goo deutscheland! great design and 250 m is some great height

Jai-C May 31, 2004 10:37 PM

My little contribution... :)

Pollock Jun 1, 2004 12:33 AM

Bravo Frankfurt!!!! :yes:

matze Jun 1, 2004 7:38 AM

your diagramm is great as always jai-c!

Mikael Jun 1, 2004 7:55 AM

beautiful tower !

coth Jun 1, 2004 5:01 PM

nice tower. and yes, it is very similar to Eureka...

hey, can anyone tell - what is happen with this projects?
Tower 1
Frankfurter Sparkasse
Metzler Bank
Hochhaus an der alten Oper
Hochhaus Güterplatz
Tower 2
Degussa Hochhaus

R@ptor Jun 1, 2004 5:32 PM


Originally Posted by coth

Was approved by the city, but the investor don't want to build it anymore


Originally Posted by coth
Tower 1

Is likely to start construction in 2005 when the problems between Vivico and the city are solved


Originally Posted by coth
Frankfurter Sparkasse

Haven't heard anything about it in a while


Originally Posted by coth
Metzler Bank

Same here


Originally Posted by coth
Hochhaus an der alten Oper

There is a good chance that construction will start this year


Originally Posted by coth
Hochhaus Güterplatz

It was proposed was but I haven't heard anything about it since then.


Originally Posted by coth
Tower 2

Depends on if Tower 1 is build. If yes there is a really good chance that Tower 2 will be build as well as part of the UEC project.


Originally Posted by coth
Degussa Hochhaus

It was proposed was but I haven't heard anything about it since then.

R@ptor Jun 1, 2004 5:33 PM



Frankfurter Sparkasse:

Metzler Bank:

Hochhaus an der Alten Oper:


Fabb Jun 1, 2004 5:40 PM

Nice new project.

Wich one was Max again ? Hopefully not the tower by Jahn, nor the other one by Nouvel... I love these two.

coth Jun 1, 2004 7:46 PM

So Max cancelled by investor?

Fabb Jun 1, 2004 8:23 PM

@ R@ptor : Thanks for editing your post and adding the renderings.
I'm really sorry for Max, but I hope Tower 1 is safe.

Grumpy Jun 1, 2004 9:11 PM


Originally Posted by Jai-C

Excellent drawing !
How do you guys do this...amazing :tup:

matze Jun 2, 2004 11:42 AM

raptor: I think you forgot ecb on your list

150 m up to 200m (the decision about the hight is not final)

tim Jun 4, 2004 5:30 PM

the proposal must be taller than 250m. the preliminary design shows 68 floors!

btw. deutsche bank does not need max, but it doesn't mean they won't sell the project to a different investor as others did in the past. this peace of land is just too valuable to leave it like it is.

Nexus6 Jun 5, 2004 9:36 AM

New rendering of Marieninsel

Grumpy Jun 30, 2004 7:23 PM

^^ rendering is gone :(

Fabb Oct 2, 2004 5:18 PM

Still no hope for this beautiful project ?

matze Oct 2, 2004 6:29 PM


Originally Posted by Fabb

Still no hope for this beautiful project ?

Sure there is hope. The tower is approved and the investor (Deutsche Bank) didn't canceled it, officialy the project is postponed until the real-estate market in FFM grows again.

Fabb Oct 2, 2004 9:09 PM

I don't know about the specific case of Frankfurt, but the real estate market in Germany is one of a few not to be booming.
That's not a good sign.

Nexus6 Oct 2, 2004 9:43 PM

You mean it is one of the few not to be overvalued! :D

Fabb Oct 3, 2004 7:07 AM


Originally Posted by Nexus6
You mean it is one of the few not to be overvalued!

And you know that skyscrapers tend to be built when the real estate market is overvalued.

Another factor is the vacancy rate. What's it like currently in Frankfurt ?

tim Oct 3, 2004 2:09 PM

the vacancy rate is very high for frankfurt - in fact it's probably the highest ever, but in comparison to other cities abroad (new york, london, shanghai, etc..) it's still not that bad. germany had always very low vacancy rates - when london had 10% or new york 15%, cities like frankfurt or munich only had 5% or even as low as 1%...
in germany the real estate industry speaks about a crisis when they mention a 10-15% vacancy rate - in other cities it's the usual vacancy rate.
still, despite the relatively high vacancy rate, the frankfurt real estate market is still the healthiest in germany. frankfurt has always been an exception to the rule - not only in the world of the real estate...

Fabb Oct 3, 2004 6:28 PM

What the latest figure ?

tim Oct 3, 2004 6:48 PM

between 10 and 15 % - depends on how you count (the higher numbers include rented office space that is not being used - only 2/3 of the vacancy rate is un-rented space)

Grumpy Jan 18, 2005 8:26 AM

Besides the ECB proposal anything else happening in Frankfurt ?

tim Jan 18, 2005 2:17 PM

Not much, only the largest inner city redevelopment project (FrankfurtHochVier) in Europe including two towers plus a few smaller highrise projects like the WestendDuo or a new tower for the KFW Bank by Sauerbruch Hutton. And a new residential tower proposal (including a few smaller towers and the reconstruction of the Henninger Tower to a residential tower) has been presented yesterday. Plus tons of low rise projects, but that doesn't count really...

Frankfurter Jan 18, 2005 5:42 PM

Here some pictures of the projects:

Henninger Turm ( 123m ) renovation plus 85m tower plus some small highrises:


WestendDuo, 96m ( under construction ):


Actual Picture of the site:

Frankfurthochvier, consiting of 2 Towers ( 130 and 93m ), shopping mall, reconstruction of the old Thurn und Taxis Plais ( under construction ):




Recent Pictures:

Blue Heaven Hotel Tower 87m, nearly finished:

Renovation of the now so called 'Lighttower' nearly completed ( aprx. 60m ):

Latest Construction pic:

'Maintriangel' ( under construction , 62m ):


'Westend-First' Renovation ( under construction ):


New Highrise (58m) of the Kreditanstalt f�r Wiederaufbau, design: Sauerbruch Hutton, starting in 2005:

Sparkasse Informatik ( 70m ) under construction:

Latest Picture:

Renovation Swiss National building, one of Frankfurts first skyscrapers, going to be renovated like it was built in the 60ies, real ugly:)



and as Tim said a lot of smaller projects...

Besides: EZB is not proposed it is already approved and going to be built...
New Rumors also indicate that the Former called Z�rich Hochhaus (170m) starts also is year with a delay of 3 years. It will be occupied partly by a Hotel and Offices like the Mariott Tower in Frankfurt.

tim Jan 18, 2005 6:10 PM

how awesome! I love the tishman speyer tower.

Jai-C Jan 18, 2005 6:43 PM

Frankfurt Hoch Vier isn't yet under construction - they just started to demolish some old buildings. Actually there's not a single 100m+ tower under construction right now... :(

Frankfurter Jan 18, 2005 6:48 PM


Originally Posted by Jai-C
Frankfurt Hoch Vier isn't yet under construction - they just started to demolish some old buildings. Actually there's not a single 100m+ tower under construction right now... :(

i am sorry, jai-c IT IS under construction, the whole project as i mentioned it, is.
The Towers are planned anyway later, but the Project FFHV is under construction at the Zeil corner.

Sogar die Bewehrungen und Gründungen starten schon, habe es heute erst selbst an der Zeil gesehen...

Jai-C Jan 18, 2005 6:56 PM

Sure the project started but the towers did not. Preperations for an upcoming highrise do not mean that the highrise itself already is under construction.

Frankfurter Jan 18, 2005 7:00 PM

exactly, but the towers are part of the project, like the mall etc.
I was taking about the whole project as u can read a few posts earlier...

tim Jan 18, 2005 7:07 PM

Uh...the construction of the FrankfurtHochVier project officially started on July 1, 2004. Besides, the question was not, what is under construction now, but what is going on in Frankfurt apart from the ECB project....

Jai-C Jan 18, 2005 7:08 PM

The question is - will they build the mall and the towers or just the mall.

@Tim: what do you mean with "what is going on" - projects under construction or also proposals (because there are a lots of them)?

tim Jan 18, 2005 7:10 PM

There is no project without the towers, it's just not feasable. That newspaper that is trying to block the project will be forced to accept an offer.

tim Jan 18, 2005 7:11 PM

Going on at the moment (I am not speaking about future proposals, just what is happening this year).

Jai-C Jan 18, 2005 7:14 PM


There is no project without the towers, it's just not feasable. That newspaper that is trying to block the project will be forced to accept an offer.
Not so sure about that - there are other projects of that kind(consisting out of a mall and one or more highrises) where they will only build the mall while the tower remains unbuilt.

tim Jan 18, 2005 7:22 PM

But this project will be unfeasable because of the high initial costs for land, demolition, and the costs of reconstruction of that historic palace. The most important part of the project are the towers. They subsidize the mall. Without them this huge project won't be attractive anymore. Apart from that it is only one tower we're speaking about. The hotel tower is not effected at all. Anyway, this doesn't matter because it seems the developer and the newspaper will come to agreement very shortly. A billion dollar project won't die because of a few millions more for a piece of land.

Grumpy Jan 24, 2005 8:13 AM

Is this the final design ?


Fabb Jan 24, 2005 10:30 AM

Frankfurthochvier is really beautiful.
I hope it gets built fast.

Samuel Jan 26, 2005 5:05 PM

Yes it's great..
Thx for the list Frankfurter!

Fabb Jan 27, 2005 10:11 AM

I belive there was a proposed building designed by Portzamparc. Any news on that one ?

philter2 Jan 28, 2005 12:04 PM

Allez Frankfurt

Fabb Jan 28, 2005 12:41 PM


It's very beautiful.
How long is the construction supposed to last ?

tim Jan 29, 2005 10:22 PM

until november 2006.

another project for this year:

completion end of 2007

in february two midrise projects start simultaneously - one is the new european headquarters of kia motors and the other one is the european headquarters of hyundai motors. both projects will also be finished simultaneously - right in time for the world cup.

one more thing: the 170m tishman speyer project mentioned by frankfurter

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