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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

thurmas Apr 19, 2018 11:57 PM

the bombers situation is unique though as they are paying $1 million a year to charter busses for fans to reach IGF field in the south end of the city until the new rapid transit line is built in 2020 to the stadium. As well the team pays around $ 4 million per year on their stadium loan that they have to finance for the next 35 years. I believe every CFL team is currently profitable except for BC Montreal and Toronto. Teams need to hover around the 22000 attendance figure per game to break even.

elly63 Apr 20, 2018 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8161218)
the bombers situation is unique though as they are paying $1 million a year to charter busses for fans to reach IGF field in the south end of the city until the new rapid transit line is built in 2020 to the stadium. As well the team pays around $ 4 million per year on their stadium loan that they have to finance for the next 35 years. I believe every CFL team is currently profitable except for BC Montreal and Toronto. Teams need to hover around the 22000 attendance figure per game to break even.

I don't believe there's anything out there about the profitability of the Als or Lions. Even though both are hurting at the gate, at one time the Als had one of the largest sponsorship intakes in the league. A rogue executive really hurt that goodwill several years ago but I believe much of it has been recovered since.

Don't know about the Lions but before the big TSN deals the word was that a team needed around 24k to break even, the CFL's arch nemesis Arash Madani a year or two ago (I can't recall when) said it is now 18k to break even.

Regardless, as I posted in the CFL thread the Bombers had a great year (almost doubling their previous years profit) and if I read correctly are starting to claw back some of that transit money.

The Club alone continues to fund the public transportation program for transit and park and ride services to and from Investors Group Field. The Club has operated the public transportation program since 2013 and has paid for all expenditures related to the program, totalling over $3.8 million. In 2017, Triple B Stadium Inc. formally acknowledged their legal obligation to fund a portion of the public transportation program, retroactive to 2013 and onward. The Club will continue its efforts to recover the payments due from Triple B.

The Club recorded a payment to Triple B of $3.5 million, the Club’s fourth annual scheduled excess cash payment as required by the Club’s Management Agreement with Triple B. This was in addition to paying the City of Winnipeg $1.3 million, which was related to an earlier Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation debt that was assigned to the Club by the City of Winnipeg in 2005

megadude Apr 20, 2018 2:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160795)
Regarding those office pools - Interesting that interest in the NFL is about as "white" as interest in the NHL.

I've noticed how in Canada at least interest in the NFL among younger generations of immigrant origin kids seems to have dropped off.

When I was a kid in the 80s interest in the NFL was quite high among immigrant kids. Part of a trio that almost all guys followed regardless of origin: NHL-MLB-NFL. Some were also interested in the CFL, but many were not. NBA had its fans but it was more of a niche thing.

Agreed. My general observation is that today's young minorities aren't as into the NFL like my friends and I were at that age. The two Chinese and Lebanese friends I had were also into CFL. The Lebanese one because he first lived in Edmonton before moving to Brampton.

Now, I can't think of a single kid I've come across who is into CFL other than my coworker's fellow Argos season ticket holder friend's son I met at the Grey Cup celebration. He also happens to play tackle football.

And I have been an asst. coach in Halton NFL Flag Football for three seasons now. And been on the other sideline as a spectator for a further four.

One of the cool things about this league is that I got to talk shop and re-hash old memories with Chris Schultz and Bob O'billovich. Obie is a regular. Schultzy was the one time. And surprisingly, even though Pinball lives in Oakville (unless he moved), I haven't come across him yet. Did get to see him speak in a church in Brampton 20 years ago though.

JHikka Apr 20, 2018 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime (Post 8161162)
I wonder if the profit margins are so narrow for MLS teams, though. If I'm not mistaken, Winnipeg is usually the second best team in the CFL financially after the Riders and they barely made money this year. Can't imagine what the situation is like in Montreal, BC or Toronto.

Profit margins are low because their team valuations are going through the roof. The Impact can lose $3m/year because they're valued at nearly $200M, and rising. Their salary is similar to a CFL team and also rising. Sponsorship has been rising, including a new jersey deal. Jersey sponsors are worth up to $5M/year and stadium sponsorships are similar.

A team like TFC loses something like $5M/year but makes $50M in revenues and spends $20M on player salaries. That $20M is four times the CFL salary cap.

Teams like Winnipeg and Sask are profitable but I imagine that isn't the same story in BC/Montreal, gauging from what we know that's available.

Acajack Apr 20, 2018 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megadude (Post 8161393)
Agreed. My general observation is that today's young minorities aren't as into the NFL like my friends and I were at that age. The two Chinese and Lebanese friends I had were also into CFL. The Lebanese one because he first lived in Edmonton before moving to Brampton.
.

A lot of immigrant men I know these days (ages 30-50) actually seem overtly hostile to gridiron football (focusing their scorn on the NFL more than the CFL) and consider it the stupidest sport ever. So obviously this makes their kids less likely to become fans of it.

When I was a teen I don't recall the immigrant dads of my friends being hostile in that way to gridiron football. They were mostly indifferent, maybe in some cases mystified by the allure of a sport with so many stoppages in play. But definitely not hostile.

It was clear for all of my friends' dads that soccer was their preference and most of them also adopted at least a passing interest in hockey - as part of their Canadian integration I suppose. Which, although it hasn't been mentioned on here, is not that difficult a cognitive move to make for a soccer fan given that hockey in some ways is kind of like a faster, higher-scoring soccer with skates on ice. A lot of the aspects of the game are reasonably similar: goalkeepers, nets, offsides, players sent off, player positions, etc.

Anyway I have no idea why such a hostility towards gridiron football has developed like this.

(My sample size in both cases is probably a half-dozen men for each.)

Acajack Apr 20, 2018 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8160811)
In my experience most disdain for hockey is a result of it dominating media coverage over someone's preferred sport.
"

I wonder if a huge mass of rugby fans in the UK want to bring down the EPL because it gets the most media coverage? I wonder if ice hockey fans in Germany want to bring down the Bundesliga because it's always at the top of the sports headlines?

My guess is that most do not. Why is that? Because a lot of those people also happen to be soccer fans too!

Liking more than one thing! What a concept!

That's what normal people are usually like! :P

HomeInMyShoes Apr 20, 2018 2:30 PM

^You're just talking nonsense now. :haha:

Acajack Apr 20, 2018 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes (Post 8161757)
^You're just talking nonsense now. :haha:

Really? I don't think so...

GlassCity Apr 20, 2018 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8161694)
A lot of immigrant men I know these days (ages 30-50) actually seem overtly hostile to gridiron football (focusing their scorn on the NFL more than the CFL) and consider it the stupidest sport ever. So obviously this makes their kids less likely to become fans of it.

When I was a teen I don't recall the immigrant dads of my friends being hostile in that way to gridiron football. They were mostly indifferent, maybe in some cases mystified by the allure of a sport with so many stoppages in play. But definitely not hostile.

It was clear for all of my friends' dads that soccer was their preference and most of them also adopted at least a passing interest in hockey - as part of their Canadian integration I suppose. Which, although it hasn't been mentioned on here, is not that difficult a cognitive move to make for a soccer fan given that hockey in some ways is kind of like a faster, higher-scoring soccer with skates on ice. A lot of the aspects of the game are reasonably similar: goalkeepers, nets, offsides, players sent off, player positions, etc.

Anyway I have no idea why such a hostility towards gridiron football has developed like this.

(My sample size in both cases is probably a half-dozen men for each.)

My dad is like this. Bring up football or baseball and he'll go on a rant about how stupid they are each time. I think it's a matter of closed-mindedness on the part of these kinds of immigrants, who just refuse to give unfamiliar things a chance. As you said, soccer (and in my family's case, hockey) are familiar, but American football and baseball are still largely limited to North America only. So it's unfamiliar, but also I think there's a feeling that because it's only popular here, it can't be good. I've met countless non-North Americans both here and across the world who almost think it's a problem that soccer isn't popular here; it is in the rest of the world, it should be here too.

Also, many immigrants I know, including my own parents, don't fully buy in into the new country's culture. What I mean is that while they're happy to be here and acknowledge all the overwhelming positives of democracy, freedom, safety and so on, there's still a feeling that the home country's culture is not just different, but better. The food is better, the music is better, and yes, the sports are better. Which is understandable - we become attached to what we grow up with, and especially so once nostalgia is added to the mix when we have to leave it behind. But I think this phenomenon might play into what you're saying as well.

I have no idea if the football hostility thing is common in the US too, but to go back to the previous conversation, what I'll finish on is that hockey is one of the strongest aspects of Canadian culture and should be more resistant to these issues. But if it's not, I wonder if it's just that it's relative popularity is dropping, or if people are just less interested in sports these days and that's what creates that impression.

Acajack Apr 20, 2018 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8161813)
My dad is like this. Bring up football or baseball and he'll go on a rant about how stupid they are each time. .

Yeah, baseball doesn't get much love from immigrants either. Unless they're from countries with a baseball culture, like some places in Latin America.

esquire Apr 20, 2018 4:09 PM

^ There are a lot of Central and Eastern European immigrants in my family and the only sport they get excited for is soccer. There is at least an awareness of hockey but the rest of the sports world might as well not exist. But it doesn't really translate to antipathy towards other sports... Super Bowl, Grey Cup, NCAA March Madness, etc. are just background noise to be ignored.

Acajack Apr 20, 2018 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8161813)

I have no idea if the football hostility thing is common in the US too, .

There is much more pressure in the U.S. to conform to iconic American stuff, and football is a huge part of that. So any hostility to it is likely way more subtle than anything we might see in Canada vis-à-vis hockey. For example, Hispanic Americans (not all of whom are immigrants I realize) have very little football culture inherited from the lands of their forebears and they are HUGELY into gridiron football.

Certainly soccer is growing fast in the U.S. (due at least in part to immigrants) whereas the NFL seems stagnant or even eroding very slowly. I don't think it's anywhere close to the point where this might be an issue though.

elly63 Apr 20, 2018 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8161889)
Yeah, baseball doesn't get much love from immigrants either. Unless they're from countries with a baseball culture, like some places in Latin America.

Way back when, I'd see many posts on the soccer boards from the zealots who heaped scorn on the fat, unathletic baseball players. Of course that scorn instantly transitioned to the CFL when the Argos moved to BMO. Much less now though.

JHikka Apr 21, 2018 2:35 AM

From April 12:
Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8156262)
@BillBriouxTV
THURS o'nites
CBC Leafs-Bruins 2304k
SNet Avs-Nash 480k;

WED o'nites
SNet Jets-Min 1169k
CBC Philly-Pitt 580k
LA-Vegas 598k

From April 16:
@BillBrioux
MON o'nites
CBC Leafs-Bruins Game 3 2380k
SNet TB-NJ 340k
SNet Nash-Avs 508k
SNet360 WWE Raw 340k

From April 19:
@BillBriouxTV
THURS o'nites
CBC Leafs-Bruins 4 2227k
SNet NHL Wash-Col 280k
SNet1 Jays-Yankees 580k

JHikka Apr 21, 2018 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8161147)
Interesting that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers draw similar revenue to that of many MLS teams including the New York Red Bulls at $32 million

A note on this: Unless i'm mistaken, CFL financials are posted in CAD with MLS financials being posted in USD.

This would mean that, using current exchange rates, $32.5MCAD in revenue by the Blue Bombers would be similar to the $25MUSD revenue put up by the Montreal Impact in the MLS, putting it roughly in the bottom third of MLS revenue. TFC's revenue, posted at $46MUSD, would be $59MCAD. Whitecaps' revenue of $20MUSD would work out to roughly $25MCAD.

This would also mean that, similar to NHL teams, Canadian MLS teams would receive parts of their revenue in Canadian dollars (STHs, Game Day, etc.) and then it's converted to USD (similar to their own TV contracts). They also have to pay salaries in USD, as well, which puts a tighter strain on things considering whatever situation the franchise is in at the time. AFAIK Canadian MLS teams would, in turn, be receiving MLS sponsorship funding in USD (jersey deals or general league sponsorships).

JHikka Apr 24, 2018 3:44 PM

@billbriouxTV
SATURDAY'S Round 1, Game 5
#HNiC LEAFS-BRUINS o'nite take: 2516k viewers.
SAME AFT: SNet, Wash-Columbus 519k

Leafs/Caps last year was hitting the 3.5M mark (I think one of the games hit 3.62M), so this year has seen a decent drop for the Leafs on CBC/Rogers.

JHikka Apr 27, 2018 11:15 PM

Wednesday, April 25:

NHL Toronto/Boston 4.2M (CBC/Sportsnet)
NBA Washington/Toronto 631K (TSN)
MLB Boston/Toronto 347K (SN1)
MLS Toronto/Chivas 313K (TSN2)

The 4.2M Leafs Game 7 rating is similar to the following:

2017 CFL GC Calgary/Toronto 4.3M (TSN/RDS)
2017 NHL ECF Ottawa/Pittsburgh Game 7 4.29M (Sportsnet)
2010 NHL ECQF Montreal/Pittsburgh Game 7 4.24M (CBC)
2018 NHL ECQF Toronto/Boston Game 7 4.2M (CBC/Sportsnet)
2015 MLB ALDS Toronto/Texas Game 3 4.2M (Sportsnet)

The Leafs average ratings for the seven game series slots in to the same level that a non-Canada SCF ends up as.

Acajack May 3, 2018 1:30 PM

...........

thurmas May 6, 2018 4:24 PM

How come since the Leafs were knocked out of round 1 we are getting no ratings updates for the Jets games in round 2?

JHikka May 6, 2018 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8178519)
How come since the Leafs were knocked out of round 1 we are getting no ratings updates for the Jets games in round 2?

Nobody makes Jets numbers publicly available that I can find. All we have are Round 1 figures.

I can tell you all about how well Vegas and Nashville are doing on NBCSN but this is the Canadian thread, so... :tup:


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