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hollywoodcory Oct 9, 2020 2:38 PM

A US startup 'Air Bahn', which has apparently been in the works since 2018, specifically stated they wanted to fly to YYC from Southern California (SNA I think?). Now this was planned pre-COVID so I'm sure those plans have since changed, but they received US DOT authorization this week. (Still need FAA I believe).

https://beta.regulations.gov/documen...2018-0158-0009

Good luck to 'em, but I doubt we will see them landing at YYC in the near future.

thenoflyzone Oct 9, 2020 3:59 PM

When AC purchased the Max’s (61 frames) in 2013, the list price value of the order was US $6.5 billion. That’s US $106 million per frame. (They most certainly didn’t pay that amount, mind you. Boeing bought some of the AC E190s as part of the deal I believe)

They now sold nine for US $365 million, so that’s US $40.5 million per frame.

Here’s hoping they got a good deal in 2013, or else they are losing a ton of money on each frame.

Coldrsx Oct 9, 2020 4:02 PM

Only suckers pay list.

Prairiedawg Oct 9, 2020 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9068532)
A US startup 'Air Bahn', which has apparently been in the works since 2018, specifically stated they wanted to fly to YYC from Southern California (SNA I think?). Now this was planned pre-COVID so I'm sure those plans have since changed, but they received US DOT authorization this week. (Still need FAA I believe).

https://beta.regulations.gov/documen...2018-0158-0009

Good luck to 'em, but I doubt we will see them landing at YYC in the near future.

Since Covid hit everything now is about timing, will airlines thrive once pandemic is over and renewed interest in travel after lost 2020 vacations or will airlines still struggle due to travel anxiety.

Quote:

Airbahn is a US airline startup that plans to operate by providing scheduled service to mid-tier markets with destinations in California, Nevada, and Western Canada. The airline will get two A320s from Airblue, a Pakistani airline run by the same person.

-Every day all planes and crews would return to base in Long Beach Airport (LGB) or Orange County Airport (SNA)
-The airline plans to be conservative with growth by design, and plans to lease A320s from Airblue, Pakistan's 2nd largest airline that operates domestically and to Saudi Arabia and UAE;
-Airbahn would have two planes within 12 months, the A320s would have 174 seats each, in a one class configuration.
-At the time of the October 2018 filing, the plan was for Airbahn to launch operations in June 2019, though obviously that hasn’t happened.
-Airbahn has a jobs page up, and is allegedly looking for 75 flight attendants and 36 pilots, among others.

Even though the plan to launch flights out of Long Beach was devised in 2018, this might actually be a great time for that, as JetBlue has just left Long Beach altogether.
https://onemileatatime.com/airbahn/

casper Oct 10, 2020 4:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9068640)
When AC purchased the Max’s (61 frames) in 2013, the list price value of the order was US $6.5 billion. That’s US $106 million per frame. (They most certainly didn’t pay that amount, mind you. Boeing bought some of the AC E190s as part of the deal I believe)

They now sold nine for US $365 million, so that’s US $40.5 million per frame.

Here’s hoping they got a good deal in 2013, or else they are losing a ton of money on each frame.

This is not a sale in the sense someone is buying these aircraft and using them for something else. They sold them and agree to lease them for a period of time that is likely close to their expect life time in the AC fleet with some options to buy them back in the future. They are basically borrowing money against these aircraft.

nname Oct 10, 2020 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9068640)
When AC purchased the Max’s (61 frames) in 2013, the list price value of the order was US $6.5 billion. That’s US $106 million per frame. (They most certainly didn’t pay that amount, mind you. Boeing bought some of the AC E190s as part of the deal I believe)

They now sold nine for US $365 million, so that’s US $40.5 million per frame.

Here’s hoping they got a good deal in 2013, or else they are losing a ton of money on each frame.

AFAIK, airlines usually pay less than half of the listed price for each frame...

casper Oct 10, 2020 5:57 PM

News on the Air Canada takeover of Air Transat. Looks like they have settled on a new price.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...872396338.html

Given the previous Air Canada offer was to expire before EU approved the deal that would have provided AC with a mechanism to walk a way. Instead they simply decided to go for a better price.

nname Oct 10, 2020 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9069641)
News on the Air Canada takeover of Air Transat. Looks like they have settled on a new price.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...872396338.html

Given the previous Air Canada offer was to expire before EU approved the deal that would have provided AC with a mechanism to walk a way. Instead they simply decided to go for a better price.

At $5/share....

What was the original price?

Djeffery Oct 10, 2020 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9069642)
at $5/share....

What was the original price?

$18

casper Oct 10, 2020 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9069677)
$18

What is interesting is that the breakup fee for Air Canada to walk away from the old deal with $40 M. You might as well assume that is lost money. So for an extra $110 M they get Air Transat.

About the value as the cash they got out of sale/lease back deal on the 737 Max.

My prediction is this is the end of Rouge. Air Canada keeps Air Transat under its own brand and at arms length, perhaps with some codeshares.

nname Oct 10, 2020 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9069727)
My prediction is this is the end of Rouge. Air Canada keeps Air Transat under its own brand and at arms length, perhaps with some codeshares.

Maybe this is why AC keep reservation open for some long-haul Rouge routes next summer... If they can get TS, they can just transfer all the reservations to the TS flight.

Dominion301 Oct 10, 2020 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9068532)
A US startup 'Air Bahn', which has apparently been in the works since 2018, specifically stated they wanted to fly to YYC from Southern California (SNA I think?). Now this was planned pre-COVID so I'm sure those plans have since changed, but they received US DOT authorization this week. (Still need FAA I believe).

https://beta.regulations.gov/documen...2018-0158-0009

Good luck to 'em, but I doubt we will see them landing at YYC in the near future.

The owner is apparently the same owner as Airblue in Pakistan. Must be a dual national. With B6 pulling out of LGB, there certainly won’t be a lack of slots to apply for.

hollywoodcory Oct 10, 2020 9:40 PM

Today YYC had the highest number of non-US international departures with 5 departures (CUN, 2x PVR, SJD and AMS) and 6 arrivals with LGW. All 4 flights to Mexico were fairly busy so for once the ITB wasn't a ghost town. :haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9069795)
The owner is apparently the same owner as Airblue in Pakistan. Must be a dual national. With B6 pulling out of LGB, there certainly won’t be a lack of slots to apply for.

Can LGB even receive flights from Canada? I know the flights will be pre-cleared in YYC, but I'm pretty there still needs to be some sort of CBP presence there. (Unless I'm mistaken).

Also I thought SouthWest got JetBlue's slots there?

thenoflyzone Oct 10, 2020 11:08 PM

I have to say I'm quite surprised this deal might go through, but at $5/share, compared to the $18 that was on the table before COVID, I can see why AC feels like it's now or never.

https://www.cp24.com/news/air-canada...rice-1.5140964

thenoflyzone Oct 10, 2020 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9069739)
Maybe this is why AC keep reservation open for some long-haul Rouge routes next summer... If they can get TS, they can just transfer all the reservations to the TS flight.

Nothing happens that fast. Even if this deal is approved (Jan 2021 at the earliest), the full merger of the two companies will take a while. AC will keep TS as a separate company for a few years. They've said so themselves. Transferring bookings from AC to TS wont be as easy as you make it seem, at least not in 2021, and certainly not on a booking made today with AC, where there is not a single mention of TS in the contract of carriage.

casper Oct 11, 2020 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9069840)
Nothing happens that fast. Even if this deal is approved (Jan 2021 at the earliest), the full merger of the two companies will take a while. AC will keep TS as a separate company for a few years. They've said so themselves. Transferring bookings from AC to TS wont be as easy as you make it seem, at least not in 2021, and certainly not on a booking made today with AC, where there is not a single mention of TS in the contract of carriage.

It should be straightforward. AC cancels the flight and tells the passenger we have rebooked you on a flight leaving about the same time on TS.

thenoflyzone Oct 11, 2020 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9069795)
The owner is apparently the same owner as Airblue in Pakistan. Must be a dual national. With B6 pulling out of LGB, there certainly won’t be a lack of slots to apply for.

Actually all the slots were taken by Southwest. There are currently no spare slots available at LGB.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southw...slots-jetblue/

hollywoodcory Oct 11, 2020 5:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9066647)
WestJet's November schedule is coming this weekend.

Guess not. They loaded a schedule update, but it only had minor changes. November was mostly left untouched.

nname Oct 11, 2020 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9069874)
It should be straightforward. AC cancels the flight and tells the passenger we have rebooked you on a flight leaving about the same time on TS.

Even easier if they codeshare with TS. Don't even need to leave the reservation system.

hollywoodcory Oct 11, 2020 6:37 PM

Appears like Air India is adding permanent service to YVR.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...late-oct-2020/


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