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esquire Nov 23, 2021 9:29 PM

I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

casper Nov 23, 2021 10:31 PM

[QUOTE=thenoflyzone;9459449].....

Also, in unrelated news, AC is fined $4.5 million by US DOT for delays in giving out refunds on flights to/from the United States during the pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...ates-1.6258394

Disappointing that it has taken this long. Punishment for airlines when they do things that are unethical should swift, public and immediate. They should be fined and shamed into proper behaviour.

Has WestJet and Swoop been fined yet?

Dominion301 Nov 24, 2021 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9459449)
Flair started Vancouver-Burbank the other day. Apparently the inaugural flight only had 11 passengers on board ! Yikes...

Speaking of inaugurals, Air France starts PTP-YUL today. A320 operating, initially 1x weekly, going to 2x weekly as of Dec 10.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AF624

Also, in unrelated news, AC is fined $4.5 million by US DOT for delays in giving out refunds on flights to/from the United States during the pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...ates-1.6258394



You have a pretty good memory ! I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, much less what was WS's maritime roster out of YOW 15 odd years ago.

LOL. Funny thing is I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday either.

As for Flair, was that 11 pax count on the inaugural outbound or the inbound? If it's the latter, that's to be expected. The F8 FLL-YOW inaugural on Oct. 31st had only 20 pax on it, while the outbound had about 115. Back in my airline days, even the inaugural of winter seasonal routes each season was usually a dog with loads under 50%, but by the next flight or the following week loads would be up substantially and by the 3rd flight or week, flights would be in the mid to high 80s.

thewave46 Nov 24, 2021 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9459546)
I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

Some of my most memorable flights have been out of YHM.

Well, the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum at YHM.

Maybe one day I'll actually go inside the terminal.

Calfan12 Nov 24, 2021 9:57 AM

Air Transat (TS) Summer 2022 schedules is now out.

The only 4 routes in Western Canada they plan on flying ✈️ and operating to is:
Vancouver- Toronto
Vancouver-Montreal
Calgary-Toronto
Calgary-Montreal

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/simplefl...mmer-2022/amp/

thenoflyzone Nov 24, 2021 12:49 PM

With the WS codeshare, I can see them canceling those routes and using those A321s for more European flights instead. Unless there is a signifiant O&D component they are after, in which case they’ll keep them.

Dominion301 Nov 25, 2021 5:39 PM

AC are working with Jazz to temporarily convert a DH4 to help move goods around BC.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...815745990.html

kattiff Nov 26, 2021 6:57 AM

Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

caribb Nov 26, 2021 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Here’s the article link: https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...ronto-ontario/

hollywoodcory Nov 26, 2021 7:27 PM

Pacific Coastal has applied to operate flights to the US for WS Link
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2021-0150-0001

Specifically mentions YYC/YVR-GEG.

Quote:

Pacific Coastal anticipates that its initial transborder operations will consist of two daily flights between Calgary (YYC) and Spokane, WA (GEG) and between Vancouver (YVR) and Spokane, WA (GEG), carrying passengers, property and mail using Saab 340B aircraft in accordance with the purchase capacity agreement with WestJet.

craner Nov 26, 2021 8:46 PM

I used to fly Calgary-Spokane in the early 90s on United.

Nicko999 Nov 27, 2021 3:19 AM

Not Canadian but it's good news for aviation in general. The US is almost back to its pre-pandemic levels when it comes to air travel. The remaining 10% is going to be the hardest to get.

U.S. screened highest number of air passengers since start of pandemic

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Nov 20 (Reuters) - The U.S. Transportation Security Administration screened 2.24 million airline passengers on Friday, the highest number of passengers since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, it announced on Saturday.

TSA spokesperson Lisa Farbstein announced the milestone on Twitter, saying it was the "highest checkpoint volume" since March 2020, when the pandemic took hold in the United States, bringing travel and business to a halt.

Earlier in the week, the TSA said it had expected to screen about 20 million air passengers during the busy Thanksgiving travel period - from Nov. 19 to Nov. 28 - and predicted volumes may be close to pre-pandemic levels.

Major U.S. airlines had predicted an uptick in air travel over the last few days.
Delta Air Lines said it expects to fly up to 5.6 million passengers from Friday through Nov. 30, nearly 300% over 2020's 2.2 million Delta passengers for the period but still below the 6.3 million passengers during the same period in 2019.

United Airlines said it anticipates more than 4.5 million passengers during the Thanksgiving travel period - about 88% of 2019 volume.
...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/20/busin...tsa/index.html

Dominion301 Nov 27, 2021 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Wow look at that. Toronto connected to north of 60 for the first time. Will complement their service to Ottawa, the first of which since pre-pandemic will be a couple of XMAS holiday trips.

In Northern Ontario news, Sunwing are not going to operate to YSB, YAM & YYB blaming the uncertainty as to when those airports will be able to handle international flights again.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...ult-ste-marie/

thenoflyzone Nov 28, 2021 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 9462249)
Not Canadian but it's good news for aviation in general. The US is almost back to its pre-pandemic levels when it comes to air travel. The remaining 10% is going to be the hardest to get.

U.S. screened highest number of air passengers since start of pandemic



https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/20/busin...tsa/index.html

Unfortunately the Canadian aviation market is nothing like the American one. Neither by size, nor scope.

2018 BTS T-100 data shows that out of 1.01 billion passenger that travelled in the United states that year (all carriers, foreign and domestic, combined), over 777 million were on domestic flights. That's 77% domestic, 23% international.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/newsroom/201...nes-us-flights

In Canada, the same year, out of a total of 160.6 million passengers, only 93 million were domestic. That's 58% domestic, 42% international.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...020005-eng.htm

So first and foremost, size. 777 million domestic vs 93 million domestic. And second, scope. the domestic/international ratio. Canadians rely far greater on international travel than the US market. At an airport like YUL, it's over 60% international passengers.

This explains why YYC's recovery post pandemic has been the fastest among Canada's major airports. Their passengers are mostly on domestic flights (~70%), just like most US airports. Whereas YYZ, YVR and YUL, where the passenger counts have a significant international component, will struggle until all foreign travel restrictions are lifted. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon, with this Omicron variant now gaining ground, meaning more restrictions coming....

thewave46 Nov 28, 2021 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9462859)
Unfortunately the Canadian aviation market is nothing like the American one.

2018 BTS T-100 data shows that out of 1.01 billion passenger that travelled in the United states that year (all carriers, foreign and domestic, combined), over 777 million were on domestic flights. That's 77% domestic, 23% international.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/newsroom/201...nes-us-flights

In Canada, international travel accounts for a far larger percentage than that. At an airport like YUL, it's over 60% international.

This explains why YYC's recovery post pandemic has been the fastest among Canada's major airports. Their passengers are mostly on domestic flights, just like most US airports. Whereas YYZ, YVR and YUL, where the passenger counts have a significant international component, will struggle until all foreign travel restrictions are lifted. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon, with this Omicron variant now gaining ground, meaning more restrictions coming....

I'd be curious about how much international travel is from the US to Canada. How much intercontinental travel difference there is between the two countries is another interesting question.

However, as you mention, the dynamics of the Canadian domestic air market are quite different.

For the domestic travel market, we're a highly seasonal and highly regional country. Domestic demand spikes in the summer and aside from Christmas, flatlines over the rest of the year. The bulk of our air travel takes place between 4 major clusters: Southern Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and Lower Mainland BC. Within those regions, travel is mostly by other means. The only two regions with significant overlap in mode of transportation are Southern Ontario and Quebec.

A lot of our international travel is US/sun based. Internationally, our demand shifts from sun destinations in winter to Europe in the summer.

Dominion301 Nov 29, 2021 5:18 AM

According to this excellent video, Canadian North are now down to their last 737-200 combi. It's apparently now scheduled for retirement by the end of 2022. Their 2nd last 732C was transferred recently to sister company Air Inuit augmenting that airline's 732C fleet to 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGFtPkKW0I

thewave46 Nov 29, 2021 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9463244)
According to this excellent video, Canadian North are now down to their last 737-200 combi. It's apparently now scheduled for retirement by the end of 2022. Their 2nd last 732C was transferred recently to sister company Air Inuit augmenting that airline's 732C fleet to 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGFtPkKW0I

Look at the teeny hairdryers (JT8Ds) on the 737-200.

For an aircraft that not too long ago was a workhorse of the sky in Canada, (Westjet, Canadian/AC, various northern operators), they're becoming quite the rare breed.

It's just Air Inuit, Nolinor and Glencore left in Canada, I think. I'm curious what will eventually be a replacement for gravel runway operations in the future.

nname Nov 29, 2021 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Another way to put this, Air North moves 2 of the 3 weekly Ontario flights from YOW to YYZ.

Dominion301 Nov 30, 2021 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9463722)
Another way to put this, Air North moves 2 of the 3 weekly Ontario flights from YOW to YYZ.

I don't know if you can look at it entirely that way as summer 2019 4N only flew YOW-YZF-YXY 2x weekly. It's more I think a case of a gradual return to service for the former route.

Dominion301 Nov 30, 2021 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9459546)
I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

For a good decade past the YHM dehubbing, WS on a summer-seasonal basis had YEG & YWG come in from the west & head east to YQM and YHZ with YHM connections still available...plus the year-round YYC flight was timed for connections too.


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