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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

Berklon Aug 24, 2018 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8292182)
The CFL does have the potential to make further inroads in fan viewership in the States.

1) - the seasons don't completely overlap, and this gives Americans the chance for another couple of months of competitive football every year.

With the Alliance of American Football starting up after the Super Bowl and running into late April, and with the amount of coverage the NFL and NCAA get - Americans may be too "footballed out" to care about another football league... especially one that isn't played in their country.

The didn't flock to the CFL when there were actual teams in the US, not sure they would care now for the most part - especially with all these competing leagues.

Acajack Aug 24, 2018 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8292249)
With the Alliance of American Football starting up after the Super Bowl and running into late April, and with the amount of coverage the NFL and NCAA get - Americans may be too "footballed out" to care about another football league... especially one that isn't played in their country.

The didn't flock to the CFL when there were actual teams in the US, not sure they would care now for the most part - especially with all these competing leagues.

Is it even possible for Americans to be "footballed out"? :haha:

esquire Aug 24, 2018 3:27 PM

I don't think the CFL will ever earn its bread and butter from US TV rights, but hey, if it could ever manage to consistently draw 250-500K viewers a game for what is essentially prepackaged, no-overhead content (i.e. it's not like ESPN would have to produce games on their own, although they along with other American networks did do that in the 80s and 90s), then perhaps it could mean an extra couple million dollars per team every year.

I actually find it kind of surprising that the CFL hasn't established that kind of "spring league" niche for itself in the US over the years. Various major networks have aired it there, and heaven knows there have been many high profile American players that played in the CFL. Yet somehow the CFL managed to disappear from most American TVs for the 2000s and into this decade. For a few years they were reduced to the America One network which virtually no one watches. It just wasn't a priority, I suppose.

That said, I'd be shocked if the CFL ever started earning revenue from any other international markets. Despite what people here think, even the NFL barely registers offshore. Mexico, the UK and some Pacific islands have small fanbases, but that's it. If some guy in Spain or China pays zero attention to the NFL, I don't know what's going to suddenly turn him on to the CFL. But frankly it doesn't matter given that the potential in the US is so vast.

khabibulin Aug 24, 2018 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8292124)
Baseball doss not translate well on TV, the sport is best taken in live in person as you mentioned.

Baseball doss have 80 home dates so it bloats up its attendance numbers but what is impressive is that a league average of about 28k is sustained over such a long stretch of games.


The main reason for the big attendance numbers for MLB is the sheer number of games every team plays per season versus teams in the other major pro sports leagues. The reason why MLB teams can maintain high numbers is the relatively low price of tickets for MLB games. MLB ticket prices average 1/3 the cost of NFL ticket prices, and about 1/2 the cost of NHL and NBA ticket prices.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ports-leagues/

JHikka Aug 24, 2018 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8292124)
Baseball doss not translate well on TV, the sport is best taken in live in person as you mentioned..

Baseball is tolerable in person if you go with someone you can hold a conversation with for a few hours and eat food with. I always tell people to go to a baseball game with someone they really like. :haha:

Made the mistake of going to a Yankees game by myself once and bailed after the 5th. It's so boring if you don't have company and you're just there on your own.

It's a good sport to have on TV in the background on a sunny weekday afternoon if you're doing something else but it's also difficult to just sit down and watch on its own. I think I only watch playoff baseball on TV and it's usually in a bar environment.

elly63 Aug 24, 2018 6:07 PM

^ A lot of people say that about soccer. What's one man's boredom is another man's in depth fascination.

GlassCity Aug 24, 2018 6:20 PM

I'm gonna repackage this into one post :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8292160)
Hockey interest does seem to be slowly going down, even if the U.S. does care enough about it to make it seem "big time" to Canadians who care about such things.

I obviously agree that hockey won't die out, and nor will curling.

I don't know, I don't think many Canadian hockey fans are under the impression that the NHL registers a whole lot in the US. I mean, you often hear sportscasters talk about "the big 3" pro leagues. But people still watch it. It'll lose ground to the other leagues, but I don't see it getting as small as it is in the US in my lifetime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8292162)
In some cases, it's pretty darn close already, wouldn't you say? :P

Absolutely, with movies I think it's as close to identical as it could be. But music a little less so (there are always a handful of Can-con artists that end up being big for a few months off the radio), and sports even less so than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8292168)
In much of the country, curling's pretty big. People have posted recently about how it's been lucrative bread and butter content for TV networks, and over the years people have posted TV ratings that top 1 million which is excellent in Canada.

It doesn't rival for top spot but it's up there perhaps arguably in the top 5 spectator sports in Canada.

But I said "openly" big, by which I mean that people would talk about it. Because the CFL gets massive ratings too, yet I find it very, very hard to find someone to talk to about it who knows any players, or how any of the teams are doing. So clearly it's not cool, and neither is curling, but they both still get good numbers. Basically what I'm saying is trends matter, but they're not all that matters. Clearly the Canadian label still has meaning, and we also still have some people who are fans of sport, not just hype.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8292172)
It's hard to distinguish between your two points, when I am out there in the real world.

For as long as I can remember, there is often a "eeewww" factor associated with anything that people perceive as being only popular in Canada. Vindication via popularity in the U.S. (or, lately, globally) is required in order for certain Canadians to take an interest in something homegrown.

I agree. Drake and the Weeknd could have put out the exact same music they've put out since making it in the US, and they'd be on the same level of popularity in Canada as some random Can-con band from Mississauga that won a contest on Much Music.

But what I meant was that they care about what the US thinks, but it's not all they (we?) care about. I'd like to give us a little more credit than that. I think there will be struggles ahead (I worry about what the CFL will look like in 40 years), but I'm also optimistic that we won't go full-American by then either.

GlassCity Aug 24, 2018 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8292693)
^ A lot of people say that about soccer. What's one man's boredom is another man's in depth fascination.

Yeah I'm no fan of baseball, but I'd rather watch it 10 times than one soccer game. I don't even understand my aversion to soccer or where it comes from, but it's extreme. I pass the line of boredom into legitimate annoyance and frustration.

Acajack Aug 24, 2018 6:29 PM

I think most us are lucid enough to realize that a lot of this is simply what we're used to (or not).

I used to prefer baseball over soccer by a wide margin, but spending quite a bit of time abroad coupled with the departure of the Expos switched my preference over to soccer.

I'll still watch both on occasion, though I sometimes find baseball a bit tedious. Unless it's a really exciting LCS or WS game.

OTOH I never got "used" to basketball, and even though it's fast and (allegedly) action-packed, it doesn't do much for me.

esquire Aug 24, 2018 6:36 PM

^ I have no background in soccer or baseball at all. I kind-of, sort-of got into the Jays and Expos in their early 90s heydays, but even then it was mostly watching the highlights than sitting through actual games... that's about it. I never played either sport apart from high school gym class.

With that being said, if you offered me tickets to see a soccer or baseball game of similar level, I'd take the soccer game hands down. I admit the nuances of baseball are lost on me, but just the same, I find the game just an absolute parade of tedium. That's why I was surprised when Canadians (including a lot of Winnipeggers) all of a sudden started getting really into baseball when the Jays went on their tear a couple of years ago... I was like "you people find this INTERESTING?" I didn't watch a minute of it.

logan5 Aug 24, 2018 7:14 PM

Oh how I would love it if Vancouver could find some way of building an MLB stadium and get a team here (please don’t say “it’s never gonna happen”). It’s true that baseball is more of a social thing, but the stadium experience, the atmospher at a baseball game beats the other sports imo. Vancouver’s a baseball city.

Berklon Aug 24, 2018 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8292276)
Is it even possible for Americans to be "footballed out"? :haha:

Definitely. If it's not possible, then the USFL and XFL would still be in business today. Too much of anything isn't good. I love pizza, but if I ate it every day for even a month - I wouldn't want to touch another pizza for a long time.

esquire Aug 24, 2018 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5 (Post 8292811)
Oh how I would love it if Vancouver could find some way of building an MLB stadium and get a team here (please don’t say “it’s never gonna happen”). It’s true that baseball is more of a social thing, but the stadium experience, the atmospher at a baseball game beats the other sports imo. Vancouver’s a baseball city.

I wonder to what extent Vancouver's bonkers real estate market affects its chances of ever getting a MLB team? You'd probably be into the billions just for the land to build a reasonably centrally-located stadium. Unless the hypothetical team would just play in BC Place, I suppose.

TorontoDrew Aug 24, 2018 8:13 PM

They would need to build a floating stadium. ;)

Source: https://images.adsttc.com
https://images.adsttc.com/media/imag...jpg?1441146162

esquire Aug 24, 2018 8:39 PM

^ Anchors away for a fun cruise on the trusty old S.S. Ballpark!

Seriously... it could come down to BC Place or somewhere like Langley for a MLB venue in the Vancouver area.

JHikka Aug 25, 2018 3:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8292718)
I agree. Drake and the Weeknd could have put out the exact same music they've put out since making it in the US, and they'd be on the same level of popularity in Canada as some random Can-con band from Mississauga that won a contest on Much Music.

In reference to Drake: The Raptors are getting fifteen nationally televised games in the US this season (8 ESPN / 7 TNT), the most national broadcasts they've had in that country since 01/02.

elly63 Aug 25, 2018 5:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8292871)
Definitely. If it's not possible, then the USFL and XFL would still be in business today.

I don't think those leagues died because of an over saturation of football in the US. Americans love the game itself but they don't like being jerked around. Americans take their football seriously for the most part (as we can see from the whole anthem debacle and the fallout from politicizing the game).

The XFL failed failed because it insulted the intelligence of a serious football fan.

The USFL had a much better chance as the concept of a spring league backed by big money is still feasible to this day. Problem was the USFL had a rogue owner who was unfortunately able to convince a few other owners to stray from the course and go head to head with the establishment which was contrary to the whole reason they came into existence.

The problem is big time pro leagues are a very difficult thing to establish and that's why most of them fail, but they wouldn't keep trying if they didn't think there was a need to fulfill.

khabibulin Aug 25, 2018 5:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8292744)
^ I have no background in soccer or baseball at all. I kind-of, sort-of got into the Jays and Expos in their early 90s heydays, but even then it was mostly watching the highlights than sitting through actual games... that's about it. I never played either sport apart from high school gym class.

With that being said, if you offered me tickets to see a soccer or baseball game of similar level, I'd take the soccer game hands down. I admit the nuances of baseball are lost on me, but just the same, I find the game just an absolute parade of tedium. That's why I was surprised when Canadians (including a lot of Winnipeggers) all of a sudden started getting really into baseball when the Jays went on their tear a couple of years ago... I was like "you people find this INTERESTING?" I didn't watch a minute of it.


You really should go to a couple of Goldeyes games at Shaw Park. Nice relaxed atmosphere in a beautiful Field. You can get really close to the action or sit in the dining area in right field. And the dining and beverage options are awesome and reasonably priced. Great way to spend an afternoon or evening in a beautiful part of historic Winnipeg! The baseball can almost become a secondary part of the experience.

logan5 Aug 25, 2018 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8292874)
I wonder to what extent Vancouver's bonkers real estate market affects its chances of ever getting a MLB team? You'd probably be into the billions just for the land to build a reasonably centrally-located stadium. Unless the hypothetical team would just play in BC Place, I suppose.

The Whitecaps proposed a downtown waterfront stadium a while back, and the cost seemed in line with other stadiums of that size. So I think a waterfront ballpark is a possibility. The water and mountain views would make the stadium experience second to none. Historic Gastown, right on the doorstep, would add to the game night experience as well.

Who knows what the economic climate will be in 10 or 15 years. Maybe Vancouver will have the clout to support an MLB park (if it doesn't right now).

https://i.imgur.com/NukyeSw.png?1

JHikka Aug 27, 2018 7:44 PM

We've had this discussion a number of times on this forum related to actual/distributed ticket sales, and recently BC Pavilion Corp. released official and actual attendance figures for Whitecaps and Lions games at BC Place:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOVQ4LGUIAE7Osf.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlfmgC_U4AAp2o5.jpg
Images via thebreakernews on Twitter.

As it should be reiterated: almost every sports team does this to some degree or another. Tickets distributed/allotted figures are always used rather than the physical number of people in the stadium.


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