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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

Berklon Oct 6, 2020 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064629)
I agree with your first point the other 2 points are valid but I think should be done off the court and similar to how Ali and Jim Brown handled it in the 60's where they did interviews and press conferences but they did not have it meld with their profession while boxing or playing football.

So you have a problem with pre-game/intermission presentations for charities and vets then? Do you want them to handle this stuff on their own time and not when you're trying to watch a game? Do you have an issue when the CFL keeps pushing their "diversity is strength" politics during the game? I want to know where the line is being drawn.

JHikka Oct 6, 2020 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064592)
As to the social justice issue melding into sports I think it turns off many fans because it is young millionaire athletes in their 20's with very little education and life experience lecturing others

I stopped reading here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas
still have not seen any Canadian NBA playoff ratings since the Raptors lost out to the celtics

If you're not going to read other posts in this thread with these figures then i'm not sure how to even proceed with bothering to reply to your posts in the first place. Raptors playoffs were up 10% this year on average versus 2019.

thurmas Oct 6, 2020 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9064653)
I stopped reading here.


If you're not going to read other posts in this thread with these figures then i'm not sure how to even proceed with bothering to reply to your posts in the first place. Raptors playoffs were up 10% this year on average versus 2019.

?huh I did not say Raptors I said what are the NBA playoff ratings in Canada since they got knocked off by the Celtics in round 2. There has to be some numbers measuring the NBA ECF and NBA finals ratings in Canada?

JHikka Oct 6, 2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064659)
?huh I did not say Raptors I said what are the NBA playoff ratings in Canada since they got knocked off by the Celtics in round 2. There has to be some numbers measuring the NBA ECF and NBA finals ratings in Canada?

That makes more sense.

Typically these sorts of broad sports ratings aren't released in Canada because our overlords at Bell & Rogers have no interest in doing so and our public providers aren't that publicly friendly. Because they don't appear in Numeris' weekly top thirty they're under 500K each at least. Without any data to compare to these numbers on their own wouldn't mean much for gauging basketball's relative incline or decline in Canada over the past few years.

If I had to guess i'd say overall NBA playoffs are down in Canada in 2020 simply because the Raptors aren't making a championship run this year. How much they're down is anyone's guess, but it would be the same as saying that NHL playoff ratings in Canada were down in 2012 because a Canadian team wasn't making a run like the Canucks were the year prior. I'd assume NBA playoff ratings in Canada in 2020 would be higher than they were in, say, 2017 or 2018, but without any reliable data it's impossible to say definitely for the realm of TV.

esquire Oct 6, 2020 3:05 AM

Based on purely anecdotal experiences, i.e. what I see and hear around me, I'm inclined to agree with Acajack's take. I don't think any kind of social justice-related backlash is likely affecting the ratings much, if at all, in Canada. But I could definitely see it having an impact in the US where the culture war lines are much more clearly drawn.

Acajack Oct 6, 2020 3:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9064752)
Based on purely anecdotal experiences, i.e. what I see and hear around me, I'm inclined to agree with Acajack's take. I don't think any kind of social justice-related backlash is likely affecting the ratings much, if at all, in Canada. But I could definitely see it having an impact in the US where the culture war lines are much more clearly drawn.

Plus, the vast majority of Canadians also agree with the stand taken by American pro athletes.

(Though one could argue it's relatively easy to do so when you live in Canada. It's a bit different if you're living in Minneapolis, Portland or Seattle and mobs have been tearing apart sections of your city while your elected officials have flirted with the idea of reducing the police budget or even abolishing the force.)

elly63 Oct 6, 2020 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9064759)
Plus, the vast majority of Canadians also agree with the stand taken by American pro athletes.

Really?

Rico Rommheim Oct 6, 2020 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9065797)
Really?

Actually no. the VAST majority of Canadians agree with Trump. The saviour of American western imperialism.

Acajack Oct 7, 2020 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9065797)
Really?

Yes, really.

There is a bit of the luxury of detachment of a Nepalese person thinking about sea-level rise, but yes - I think most Canadians by a wide margin side with the athletes.

Siding with U.S. athletes (mostly from minorities) also conveniently scores points for Canadians who want to feel morally superior to Americans.

JHikka Oct 7, 2020 1:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 9065808)
Actually no. the VAST majority of Canadians agree with Trump. The saviour of American western imperialism.

Can't tell if trolling or not.

JHikka Nov 5, 2020 4:42 PM

From the Ottawa subforum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13 (Post 9096777)
OSEG could bail on Lansdowne Park partnership without city help

Give Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group access to reserve funds and renegotiate partnership, say city staff

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Nov 04, 2020 10:28 PM ET

The business group that runs Lansdowne Park's commercial sector and owns the sports teams that play there may not survive without some immediate help from the city, according to a report released late Wednesday.

The COVID-19 pandemic has wreaked havoc on the various revenue streams of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG). Restaurants struggle to host diners, and "for lease" signs hang at stores in the commercial area it runs. Gathering limits mean the teams it owns — the Redblacks, Ottawa 67's, Ottawa BlackJacks and the Ottawa Aces — can't sell tickets to fans. No concerts or other events can be held at TD Stadium until next year.

"OSEG is not in a position to weather the impact of the pandemic under the current conditions" of its public-private partnership with the city, according to a report submitted to council by city manager Steve Kanellakos.

According to the report, OSEG expects to collect 75 per cent of its rental income in fiscal 2021 and that "rents will take five years to get back to pre-COVID-19 levels." And with no ticketed events allowed in the foreseeable future, OSEG is forecasting a 60 per cent plunge in revenues for next year.

OSEG's cash flow is low, and it needs to renegotiate a $104-million loan in the next two years.

"The worsened financial projections due to the pandemic will make that difficult, putting them at a very real risk of having default be their best business decision," according to the report.

To help OSEG survive, city staff recommend the following:
Give OSEG access to $4.7 million of reserve funds to help it operate in 2021 and refinance its loan, to be paid back over life of its partnership with the city.
Extend the life of the city and OSEG's partnership by 10 years to 2054, presumably to give OSEG more time to recoup some costs.
Forgo the city's half of the cash flow from retail operations it would have collected at the end of the partnership period.

"Urgent action is needed to provide OSEG with more flexibility immediately," states the report.

Opening door to public money

In addition to approving the recommendations, staff want to work with OSEG on options to bring more people to Lansdowne in a post-pandemic era.

Taxpayers have already spent $210 million on Lansdowne, including $135 million to renovate the stadium and another $75 million for the city-run urban park, which includes the Horticulture Building and the Aberdeen Pavilion.

It's unclear if these new negotiations would open the door to more public money being spent at Lansdowne.

The report suggests that OSEG and the city should assess aging infrastructure at Lansdowne, such as the stadium's north stands, and wants to look at increasing the density of the site, "including affordable housing."

A working group would be comprised of OSEG members, the city's senior managers and a number of councillors including Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard, who represents the area where Lansdowne is located.

The group would report back on the options for Lansdowne by the spring of 2021, and would include public engagement.

City has no expertise running retail, sports teams

It's not a surprise that the city is recommending the bail out.

If OSEG defaults, the city would be left holding the bag for all of Lansdowne's commercial, sports and entertainment business — for which it has no expertise. The city would also be responsible for outstanding loans.

Over the long term, an OSEG default would result in losses of as much as $407 million to the city, according to the report.

However, according to the city's chief financial officer, extending the partnership by 10 years could help the municipality avoid costs between $4 million to $21 million because OSEG would continue to be responsible for operating and maintaining the commercial and entertainment sections of Lansdowne, instead of the city.

City to get no return from 'waterfall'

The city entered into a complex 30-year financial partnership deal with OSEG in 2014, known as the "waterfall." The partnership calls for the city to retain ownership of the property, while the business group operates the retail and entertainment district until 2044, at which time the entire site would revert back to the city.

Meantime, OSEG would be responsible for all extra costs of operating the site, including the stadium and arena.

Under the plan, OSEG was supposed to inject $55 million into Lansdowne over the life of the partnership, but it would also get a return on that investment. And in the latter years of the partnership, the city was also supposed to make money from the deal.

It hasn't worked out that way.

Even before COVID-19, OSEG was having money problems. Over the last several years, it has had to shell out for additional unforeseen costs, and hasn't attracted as many visitors to the site as it had hoped. OSEG had never broken even.

In April 2019, residents heard that the "waterfall" would generate $60 million less than expected over its 30-year life, and the city would never receive its expected $62 million of accrued interest. OSEG would also likely not recoup its $102 million of capital investments.

Addressing the immediate effects of COVID-19 restrictions, as well as the expected prolonged recovery phase, OSEG will end up injecting $192 million into Lansdowne — almost four times as much as it had planned under the original deal.

The OSEG partners include Minto chairman Roger Greenberg, Trinity Development founder John Ruddy, developer William Shenkman, and John Pugh who — among other things — founded e-commerce firm The Object People.

The city's finance and economic development committee will discuss the recommendations at its meeting on Nov. 12.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ium%3Dsharebar


esquire Nov 5, 2020 5:31 PM

Is OSEG the first significant pro sports group to seek public assistance? The teams around here have been pretty well silent since the pandemic began.

Also, what's happening with the north stands at TD Place?

JHikka Nov 6, 2020 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9097027)
Is OSEG the first significant pro sports group to seek public assistance? The teams around here have been pretty well silent since the pandemic began.

I'm fairly certain they are but could be wrong. Lansdowne wasn't profitable before COVID so the pandemic was just the cherry on top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9097027)
Also, what's happening with the north stands at TD Place?

There's no concrete plans at the moment. Both the arena and the North Stand need significant work in the near-term to remain functional.

----

In other news, the Toronto Wolfpack have been denied entry into the Super League for 2021, leaving them without a league.

https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toro...r-2021-season/

Acajack Nov 6, 2020 7:20 PM

Also, Jeff Hunt left OSEG this spring to pursue other projects.

He was the driving force, the public face and some might say the heart and soul of the operation.

Lots of storm clouds on the pro sports horizon right now. Not just in Ottawa and the CFL either.

esquire Nov 6, 2020 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9098493)
There's no concrete plans at the moment. Both the arena and the North Stand need significant work in the near-term to remain functional.

Are there any problems that are obvious, or is it more behind the scenes structural-type stuff? Considering the structure's age, I wonder if it may simply be reaching the end of its lifespan?

JHikka Nov 6, 2020 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9098555)
Are there any problems that are obvious, or is it more behind the scenes structural-type stuff? Considering the structure's age, I wonder if it may simply be reaching the end of its lifespan?

It's mostly structural i'd imagine. The issue was first raised in late 2019 in this article from the Ottawa Citizen:

Quote:

Nor is the issue of compromised infrastructure fully accounted for. Seven years into the Lansdowne partnership, OSEG recognizes the entire north side of the football stadium as well as the arena need replacing, and soon. The original assumption had been OSEG would be able to spend a bit each year to keep the stands and arena in good condition. That much was budgeted for, but a full replacement, which would cost tens of millions of dollars, was not. In coming months OSEG and the city will negotiate over who should bear the extra cost
https://ottawacitizen.com/business/l...ble-teams-here

Acajack Nov 6, 2020 8:05 PM

Yes, it has to be structural. I attended a couple of games in 2019 and sat in the north stands. There is nothing visibly wrong with it from a superficial perspective. It looks no worse or even better than it did in the Rough Riders and Renegades years.

JHikka Jan 7, 2021 5:34 PM

The 2021 #WorldJuniors is the most-watched since 2015, captivating 13.5 million unique Canadian viewers – 36% of Canada’s population – on @TSN_Sports and @RDSca

The fan-favourite tournament smashed records for @TSN_Sports digital platforms, as overall live streaming increased by 121%, more than doubling last year’s record World Juniors live streaming consumption.

An average audience of nearly 3.8 million viewers tuned in to @TSN_Sports and @RDSca for the Gold Medal Game, which also became the most-streamed event ever for TSN digital platforms (up 87% vs 2020).


https://twitter.com/TSN_PR/status/1347217945106280459

Canada's first two group stage games averaged 1.96M on TSN earlier on in the tournament. Canada's games before Tueday's final averaged 2.3M, including 2.8M for the semifinal against Russia.

https://www.tsn.ca/world-junior-men-...cups-1.1573019

elly63 Jan 13, 2021 3:13 AM

Video Link

JHikka Jan 14, 2021 10:50 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EruBYdyX...jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/SportsnetPR/stat...06330924703746


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