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[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed
After going through the threads I feel its time we have a thread dedicated to the Events Centre, especially since we are going to seeing more plans and more happening in the next year on this project.
NADEAU SOUCI ELLIS http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3f0731a5.jpg EXP. ARCHITECTS INC. http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8bcd055b.jpg ARCHITECTS 4 http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps157a58d4.jpg ARCHITECTURE 2000 http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4461204.jpg http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps224c4c71.jpg The location chosen for the proposal http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps95202820.jpg All the images are taken out of the Moncton Downtown thread and all photos from the Moncton City Website. |
You may be right, but this is still nothing more than a proposal at the present time, so if you don't mind, i might request one of our new mods (ahem Myles, Greg) to change the title of the thread to something like:
[Moncton] Downtown Events Centre (proposal) :) While you're at it guys, for the sake of maintaining naming conventions, perhaps you could change the Moncton Ideas thread to: [Moncton] Ideas Here's the URL for the webcam at the events centre construction site. Enjoy. :) http://www.moncton.ca/Visitors/Web_C...own_Centre.htm |
Agreed
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Ahhh! :D Specific project threads for Moncton, I love it!
Is this the incredible shrinking event centre you joked about, MonctonRad? MonctonCore, you should dig up whatever information has been posted in other threads and consolidate it here. And get a picture (even just a Google Street View capture) of what the site looks like today. Here's the thread for ours, just to show you what I mean. And if you have any ideas how we can make ours better, easier to read, whatever, please don't hesitate to comment there. |
That is the ever shrinking Event Centre. At this rate, it'll be built sometime in 2120, and it will consist of an unpaved parking lot and a park bench in the middle of it. :)
Until then though, there was a lot of discussion about it in the Inside Wheeler thread, including the proposals that were made for it. |
As far as i'm concerned if it holds any less than a capacity of 10,000 it's a letdown.
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Probably about 40% of the posts in the [Moncton] Centre (inside Wheeler) thread are about the events centre, so I don't think it is practical to move them all here, but I agree that some of the more important posts should be moved. I will do that tonight or within the next couple of days. BTW, with this new thread, I am worried about some confusion with the name of the existing [Moncton] Centre thread. I am therefore proposing the following change: That the [Moncton] Centre (inside Wheeler) Developments thread be renamed to the [Moncton] Downtown (inside Wheeler) Developments thread. I have already PM'ed Myles about this. Greg handled the other change quite expeditiously.... It's so great having local moderators! :banana::banana::banana: |
Removed the (Inside Wheeler) portion of the thread title. I think we all know where Downtown Moncton is. :tup:
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My bad haha. Form autocomplete gets a bit ambitious sometimes!
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I thought a definition was necessary because some people would have a very narrow view of where "downtown" Moncton is. For example, some would claim that downtown is bounded by Vaughan Harvey, Mountain Rd and King St. North of this you would have "north central Moncton" and west of this you would have the "west end". I just didn't want to get too neighbourhood specific. Still, the original title of the thread was pretty cumbersome, and as long as everyone maintains the understanding that "downtown" means "within the confines of Wheeler Blvd", then I am cool with changing the name of the thread to [Moncton] Downtown Developments :tup: |
OK - I will select a few posts from the Moncton Downtown thread dealing with the events centre proposal.
#1 - regarding my impressions from attending the intial presentation at Moncton City Hall chambers nearly a year ago: Quote:
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#2 - pierremoncton posted this, including a link to a city hall website with numerous architectural renderings for review:
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#3 - mctnguy provided this link to a youtube video of the presentation (very informative, a must see really):
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#4 - further thoughts by myself regarding each of the four different proposals:
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#5 - pierremoncton posted this additional flyover animation of the Architecture 2000 proposal:
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Event Centre
The thing I do like Architects 4's idea because its affordable design, but some changes would be, one the plaza, I find its just really bland, it doesn't look like a place people would want to gather around, I would like to see some color, it could use maybe a restaurant area/bar facing the plaza, some more statues and art work. Two The street presence isn't attractive at all needs entrances form Main st.... actually I guess i'm not a fan of it , if we could just incorporate bits of each would be awesome.
Architecture 2000's is by far the best, I think that it would be affordable if it was done in phases ( except the rail ). The whole project wouldn't be exactly the same, change the transit hub to something similar to the go transit rail crossing in Pickering. http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps348379da.jpg Bring that across to a redeveloped lot or parking garage/transit hub Codiac Transpo and it would look great. Basically my point it Architecture 2000's render is affordable especially if its tweaked a bit, but keeping the beautiful colours and art work like in the video. Photo from the Pickering Go transit site. |
I find the North facing view of the Architects 4 proposal really telling. In the bottom right corner across Highfield you can see stairs leading down (underground parking / tunnel under the tracks?), also there appears to be some sort of patio features included in the design - on the upper level of the arena, on the roof of the convention centre space, and as well in the corner of the large plaza facing Highfield (possibly promoting the concept of a sports bar/restaurant). Overall a very practical concept and fitting to the area. I think I find the others unnecessarily flashy to the point of being unrealistic (but this is coming from a modest SJer). The designer also clearly put their attention on the arena alone, whereas my feeling on the others is that the add-ons (surrounding condos/transit centres/etc) are a bit of a distraction from the central purpose of a downtown events centre.
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Welcome to the concept of mixed-use, urban living: Living close to sources of employment, to amenities, in a central location. |
I heard news that the City has just put this out as a Design-Build project instead of going with any of the Architect's proposals. Has anyone heard anything about this?
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Interesting article on the CBC:
Why funding new sports stadiums can be a losing bet Building stadiums and arenas have little economic benefits for cities, research shows http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html |
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I read this article too. There is no question that arenas and stadia can be overbuilt and can result in major fiscal embarrassment for their respective political jurisdictions, especially if things go overboard and they become architectural masterpieces or sports shrines. This sort of situation obviously should be avoided. The fact remains however that the coliseum needs to be replaced. The roof is too low for major touring bands and their staging. The acoustics of the coliseum suck big time. The building also has essentially non existent A/C and this is a major problem for curling and hockey playoffs that can extend well into the late spring. If you put 7,000 sweaty people in there in late May, the ice can start to get soft pretty quick and it can be hard to see what's going on with all the ice fog in the air! Another issue is ice time availability for the Wildcats during the QMJHL playoffs. The coliseum is heavily booked with trade shows in the late winter and the spring and this has caused major scheduling problems if the Cats make a deep playoff run. God forbid if the Miracles also had a successful playoff season! :eek: The existing infrastructure is old and capacity issues are becoming more and more problematic every single year. We need a new arena. That is self evident. It is also obvious that it should be built downtown in order to maximize economic benefit and to kickstart redevelopment in the core. A new events centre must be built. It is important that we are prudent in what is constructed. It doesn't need to be an architectural masterpiece, but it should be "right sized" so that it can serve as an appropriate hockey venue for the playoff crowds and is also able to attract major touring acts. I think 10,000 seats is about right. It is also important to realize that we are talking about much more than a rink here. We are talking about a mixed use development that will give the critical mass needed to stimulate years of future growth in the west end of downtown. Components could include retail, restaurants, condos, apartments, a transit hub, a small convention centre and possibly a new civic library. In the end, the arena itself may be no more than half of the development and perhaps lots less. The CBC article makes good points, but in many ways, it misses the point as far as our proposed events centre is concerned...... |
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I'm not going to support the rhetorical talking point of 'a downtown events centre must be built' -- because, clearly, it doesn't. What does have to happen is an inversion of Moncton's economic growth. It must turn inward, so the City may use the infrastructure it already has, so that growth in Moncton doesn't necessitate putting more roads and public services on the credit card. |
I was watching some of the World Figure Skating Championships on TV the other night.
The event is being held at the Budweiser Gardens in London Ontario. This is a facility held up by many as an example to emulate for our own proposed downtown events centre. I must admit that the arena seems very impressive, with a full second tier of seating around the entire ice surface and it appears to have excellent sight lines throughout. Apparently the seating capacity for the arena in 9,090 for ice hockey, but somewhat greater for other events. On TV, it looks much bigger than it's stated size, almost a mini Air Canada Centre..... I do think that this is a facility that we should use as an example for our own downtown centre. It has apparently been very successful at attracting major events and has been an engine for downtown revitalization in London. The website is http://www.budweisergardens.com/ There are integrated bars and restaurants in the facility. With our own Molson/Coors brewery in town, I wonder what the potential is here for major tie ins, corporate support and for naming rights..... |
Yes, the Budweiser Gardens is the formerly known John Labatt Centre, which we have already made suggestions on this site last year, which would be a good model for the Moncton Downtown Events Centre.
I even made this little things...'memba! I took the Labatt Centre and dropped in nicely in this spot. :) http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...n/arena3-1.jpg |
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I looked this up on wikipedia and it states the building was completed in 2002 at a cost of $42,000,000 plus $10,000,000 for the land. If Moncton ends up building an arena with less than 10,000 seats, I have to say I think this is an excellent design. Despite its size, it has a large stadium look to it. Looking forward to any developments on the downtown events center in 2013! |
Yes, I remember your proposal very well Budyser! :)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...n/arena3-1.jpg Back when we were discussing the proposed events centre on the main Moncton thread, and before the city optioned the Highfield Square site, the area behind Assomption Place was a legitimate contender as a site for the events centre, and a favourite candidate amongst many members on the forum. I still think that in some ways, this location would have done more for densification of the core and creating a true downtown focus than the Highfield Square site, but it was always a dilemma. The Highfield Square site will be more versatile and will certainly rejuvenate the west end of downtown...... |
And speaking of the Budweiser Gardens, News91.9 published this yesterday...
http://www.news919.com/2013/03/15/sy...ncton-planned/ Symposium on future of downtown Moncton planned Reps from London, Ont. will discuss entertainment centre’s affects in their community Tara Clow Mar 15, 2013 01:49:32 PM MONCTON, N.B. – The future of downtown Moncton will be the focus of a symposium planned for next month. Downtown Moncton Centre-ville Inc. has invited representatives from London, Ontario to help provide details on their struggles and what they gained from building an entertainment centre ten years ago. President Louis Leger says DMCI shares their vision. “We have invited them to share with us first of all, how they went about building their centre, and what the centre has done. They have almost doubled the value of their downtown.” The City of Moncton has not signed on the dotted line for a downtown entertainment centre just yet. They have until June to do so, but Leger says this might help give them the extra push to move ahead. The symposium is planned for the morning of April 17th. |
Speaking of the Budweiser Gardens in London......
Downtown Moncton Centreville has announced a community symposium to be held at 7:30 AM on Wednesday April 17th at the Capitol Theatre. The guest speakers will be the director of the Budweiser Gardens and the executive director of Downtown London Inc. They will be speaking on how transformative the London events centre has been for their downtown since it opened in 2002. Apparently downtown tax valuation in London has doubled in the last 10 years, in large part due to the presence of this important facility. Despite the ungodly hour, everyone is invited to attend this symposium....... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also: The deadline for the request for qualifications for the new events centre passed yesterday. Apparently "multiple proposals" were received. City hall staffers will now review the proposals in detail and those companies that are felt to be qualified will be invited to submit a formal RFP for the project. if the city decides to proceed, this RFP will likely be issued in the fall. The option for the city to buy the Highfield Square property will expire in June. A decision on whether to proceed with the purchase is expected in May. Louis Leger, the president of DMCI is pressuring the city administration to proceed quickly with all this. According to him, several "very significant projects" on adjacent pieces of property are awaiting a formal announcement by the city as to it's intentions. As had been stated before, the events centre itself might be $100-150M, but by proceeding, an additional $100-150M of private investment might also be stimulated by this project. Downtown Saint John will soon be transformed by the redevelopment of the coast guard site. The Moncton downtown events centre will be our own equivalent project. This is a critical time for our city. We can not let this opportunity pass by..... :yes: EDIT - sorry Budyser, I see that you beat me to it by several minutes. If I had seen your post, I would have modified mine somewhat. I didn't mean to steal your thunder..... :) |
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I support this downtown development, but I am also aware of the economic environment in which this events centre must try to survive after all of this money is spent on building it. Residential and commercial development is still going to favour chearper, non-downtown site options. The City of Moncton still hasn't implemented a plan for enforcing sustainable development practices. Business park and suburban expansion is literally an economic nightmare in Moncton. This downtown events centre requires a steady pace of residential and commercial growth around it in order to make the centre financially solvent, to avoid any need for municipal and provincial (federal) subsidies, which is a real possibility if the downtown cannot attract enough residents to produce regular users of this facility. I'm nervous about the foundational steps that haven't been taken to support this centre in the long-term. I don't except the frivolous Times&Transcript to cover any of this, but I hope to god that the CBC will... |
Moncton multipurpose complex inches closer to reality
Pedway linking former Highfield Square mall to federal building torn down CBC News Posted: Mar 18, 2013 12:21 PM AT Last Updated: Mar 18, 2013 12:19 PM AT http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/ph...edway-gone.jpg Main Street looks different after the Highfield Square pedway was torn down over the weekend. (Kate Letterick/CBC) Highfield Square closing The pedway linking Highfield Square with the federal building in Moncton was torn down over the weekend, but the former mall won't be demolished any time soon, says the mayor. The city still has a lot of work left to do in its quest to build a multipurpose sports and entertainment centre at the site first, said George LeBlanc. That includes buying the Highfield Square land on Main Street, securing funding for the project and putting out a request for proposals, he said. "That's where companies who have made the shortlist will have an opportunity to put their proposals forward to the city to define what they can do and what could be contemplated in a downtown center and so there's significant milestones that are coming up that we'll be looking at," said LeBlanc. The removal of the pedway has got people talking about the project again, said Anne Poirier Basque, the executive director of Downtown Moncton. "It certainly means that there's movement and that there is change coming to our downtown," she said. The city hit a small milestone in the project on Friday with the deadline for request for qualifications to see which companies are interested in the project. If the project goes ahead as planned, it's not expected to open before 2017. The Highfield Square location was selected as the best option for a new multipurpose complex last year, based on site characteristics, location and transportation; costs of acquiring development land; urban context and physical elements; and economic impact and synergy with the downtown. The former mall closed in the fall. A new downtown event centre could cost $100 million to construct, city officials have said. Moncton politicians have been talking about replacing the aging Moncton Coliseum for several years. |
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Being in health care, I know that our inflation rate is a lot higher than the general rate. ;) |
Someone should definitely post this in the Canada section! How exciting! A arena that big could have AHL!
Is it an arena/convention centre mix deal? |
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This is proposed as being a multifunction centre, and might possibly have a small comvention centre associated with it. Retail, restaurants, pubs, relocation of the civic library, a hotel and a new transit hub have also been suggested. This is still early days and nobody knows exactly what will be included in the project yet, but there seems to be a consensus that the minimum seating capacity should be 10,000. |
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It would be hugely transformative for the west end of downtown as all proposals contain significant residential and commercial components. Downtown is currently pretty stagnant and seeing minimal development in comparison with the suburban areas. The hope is that this would kick start a renewal in the area by making it more appealing for other developments and investments opportunities. |
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http://www.moncton.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?vid=12104 |
Ok, I get it, we all want a new Downtown Events Centre, but why are we comparing ourselves with London, Ontario? A city with a population of 365K
and a metro area of 465K ??? They certainly don't have the same tax base as we do? :shrug: |
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Mmmm, I don't think that answered my question. How is this sustainable? Who is expected to pay for this and how is a city 5 times smaller expected to make this realistic? We all want this for Moncton, but I truly believe that this will put Moncton in a financial mess. We should go big, but this big? |
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There is an excellent editorial in today's T&T about this. When I have a chance, I may try and repost it here........ |
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Adding 2K more seats than already exist at the coliseum is a virtual waste of money if we don't reach that 'magic threshold' that promoters and booking agents look at for venues.
We need a 10,000 permanent seat venue to grow into, like we grew into and out of the coliseum. |
I really don't see any more need or reasons to explain why Moncton needs a 10,000 seat facility. Arguments for something smaller or bigger is a complete waste of time.
Can we move on please. :rolleyes: |
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This is the Moncton Events Centre thread after all, where the tiniest detail about this still unconfirmed project is to be discussed ad nauseum |
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