The article made me think that BC in general lacks a numbered secondary highway system. Obviously, its topography makes it difficult to always have a reasonable alternative route, but an area like the Okanagan valley shouldn't be completely reliant on a single highway. While upgrading a forestry road to a handle general traffic is a good start, it makes me think that something more comprehensive.

To be clear I'm not proposing a bunch of new expressways, more-so secondary highways that could serve a passable alternatives if Hwy 97 were closed do to natural events such as a floods, fires, or landslides, as well as traffic accidents. Here's my idea:

• Hwy 501 - West Kelowna-Spallumcheen via Westside Road
• Hwy 502 - Lake County-Carr's Landing-Vernon via Okanagan Centre Road/Carr's Landing Road/Commonage Road; possible continuation into Kelowna via Glenmore Road
• Hwy 503 - Kelowna-Narmata-Penticton via new road between Kelowna & Naramata plus Narmata Road

The secondary highway system could be applied to other areas of the province as well. For numbers, I just picked a random 3di series that's unused, but if it was province wide it would probably be numbered based on it's location of within the province. Thoughts?

While alternative routes would be a good idea, I'd personally prefer that the current X/XA/XB numbering system be maintained. 97A on the Westside Road would be more indicative of an alternative to 97 than 501, plus you avoid potential confusion with two different systems (XA and 50X).

Has anyone been through Kicking Horse Pass lately? How's the construction coming?

I'm heading that way on Friday.

^Bobert posted a great photo of the Big Horn Bridge and Lynx Viaduct in the Canada section - check it out.
Safe travels on Friday.

I just drove through Monday. The first viaduct on the west end of the project area is open and construction is progressing nicely on all the others.

Speaking of Kicking Horse Canyon

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bc9931db_b.jpg
By BC Moti https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc...in/dateposted/

Looking at this, it will have a nice rhythmic flow to it when its done. Now if we can just get the NP section done. I will not get a chance to see this as we'll be driving the area after the long weekend.

That slope below looks like it could slide at any given moment. I know it’s obviously reinforced into the rock, but after what we went thru last fall, it just makes you wonder

Isn’t it closed after the long weekend ?
You’ll be detoured through Radium.

Agreed about getting the last 40kms through Yoho done.

Right, we come through after, its why I am now booked for 1 night in Radium. I have a project in Lake Louse the next day.

If the project was ready for me, we would have hit the TCH on Sat.

Also, we will be stopping by the big Cheeto on the way home after.

I was in Tofino over the long weekend and was surprised how little progress there had been with the Highway 4 Kennedy Hill construction in the past two years. It is still far from being completed and surprisingly little had happened. All the massive rock blasting and dirt removal was already done when I last visited in Nov 2020, but maybe COVID slowed them down?

I think the project has been going on for over four years by now.

Drove through the Koke last week. look like one more bridge is being replaced and then they are done. Should be all open next year. Otello was close to having all 4 lanes open. Overall the drive from Hope to Banff is a nice drive. the bypass was not overly busy but we hit it between 4 and 7 so mostly transport trucks which were doing a nice 100 k most of the time.

Tsawwassen to Hope was just under 2 hours at Lunch on a Monday.

Can’t figure out why the government can’t figure out not to tunnel sections of the trans Canada through the steep and winding sections.the money they put into cranes/engineering and reinforcing Cliffs building bridges and holding up traffic ext.
Tunneling would save on a lot of maintenance such as rock slides avalanche’s and land slides from extreme rains.
Other country’s tunnel most why can’t we. I guess we are a 100 years behind.

I suspect that a big factor is the geology of the mountain range. Rocky Mountains are pretty brittle so constructing anything is a pain in the bullocks regardless.
IIRC, there are few tunnels on American interstates crossing the Rockies too.
The Scandinavian countries tunnel their roads, but Scandinavian mountains are a lot older so less brittle. They’re like Canadian Shield except more mountainous.
I have yet to check the Alp’s geology. Edit: It seems similar to Rocky Mountains as both were formed from collisions. Maybe the countries around the Alps are densely populated so the average cost per person (or even per user if there are tolls) is much lower. It’s a number game that B.C. doesn’t afford to play.

It would appear that it is not just BC; there are no large-scale road tunnels in North America from what I can find. On Wikipedia's list of the longest road tunnels, there is only one entry from North America - the "Big Dig" in Boston - and that is in 355th place out of 362 listed. There's nothing listed on the "under construction" list either. As for rail tunnels, the Mount Macdonald tunnel is in 121st place as the only North American tunnel in the 172 listed as being greater than 8 km in length. We do have some longer water and subway tunnels, but overall there's little on the scale of other regions.

Not U/C yet but hopefully it won’t be too too long.
A sad story about twinning through Yoho NP in BC:

http://https://globalnews.ca/news/9246369/field-highway-one-fatal-crashes-yoho/

One year later and Hwy 8 is back in service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEKkacN--c

Highway 4's Kennedy Hill getting closer to completion.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d9e2f976_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...54a62c74_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8bbe7cec_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...aa3a4688_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...29a6ab27_b.jpg

Photos from BC MOTI https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc...57690343841444

The latest video on kicking horse pass. Looking great!

• Video Link

New Kicking Horse Pass photos.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3c6a8e53_b.jpgCaribou Wall and Viaduct by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1888718d_b.jpgWestBound Lanes Taking Shape by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelown...an-Lake#415923

No surprise there .

Yep, posted about that in the Kelowna section...

Kelowna really does get the poop end of the stick for infrastructure investment from the province.

An urban area soon to be nearing 300 000 divided by a like that relies on a single crossing... Not many places in the developed world have that situation.

On the other hand in Kamloops it seems as if the province is at least now considering interchanges on highway 5 at Halston and Shuswap lake road. How far in the future this plan is we have yet to see.

Also looks that under the same program major upgrades to the #1 between the highway 5 junction and Pat Road are at least being studied. Again, what this actually means in the long run we have yet to know.

4 lanes on Highway 33 from Kelowna to Big White please!

Driving to big white everyday for 2 years for work I would say that would be unnecessary. Maybe a passing lane or 2 going up the hill but 4 lanes would be overkill.

Well that’s depressing & frustrating. :(

In regards to that I posted this in the Kelowna thread:

How can they “not even be close to construction even if given the money today” for the interchanges at Boucherie and Westlake roads? Have these not been in the design phase for nearly a decade now? I think that’s enough time to plan two interchanges.

Also curious to how they will approach the elimination of the couplet through downtown Westbank…

The sensible approaches would be to tunnel the highway under downtown Westbank followed by the less favorable option of a new free flow bypass around the core.

But those are the more big thinking long term solutions that would be done in all other developed countries.

I bet what we get is converting either Dobbin Rd. or Main St. into an even busier at grade stroad.

At bare minimum the 20 year plan should be upgrading the 97 between the Connector interchange and the bridge into a free flow artery and upgrading the 97 between UBC and the south end of Vernon into a free flowing artery, especially since the far superior second crossing and free flowing relocated 97 via Clement is dead.

Sure bookending Kelowna with two free flowing sections of the 97 will cause huge issues for Harvey, but this is the path the province (and city now) have chosen, so may as well demand the best we can get out of that…

^ Thanks Metro.
I kind of chuckle when I read in that article they are considering adding a 6th lane to the existing Bennett bridge given the criticism of same when it was built.

Some promising news for Kamloops at least. Would love to see them upgrade that stretch of #1 from the junction with Highway 5 to Pat Road.

Thanks again.

Well 33 is also the highway to Castlegar so 4 lanes to Kelowna is a bit of a fantasy of mine. “Coquihalla Kootenay Connector”.

I'm sure some of the locals would disagree with me but there's a bunch of properties on either one of the couplet roads that could stand to be demolished for a wider two-way road. Downtown Westbank was always pretty meh when I lived there.

Considering the extra cost and maintenance for a tunnel, I don't see why they'd bother looking into that as an option.

It was such a short sighted decision back then and was a problem really shortly after too. I doubt they've learned their lesson but it sure is frustrating to hear them talk about widening now.

Can't say I've ever driven 33 past Big White and went "man, it's so busy on this road. I hope they 4-lane it soon!" More passing lanes? Sure. I usually end up getting annoyed between Rock Creek and Midway and would love more places to pass there.

Like I said more of a fantasy. But think of it as 4 lanes between Hope and Merritt. Not really needed but part of a larger project. 4 lanes across Southern BC as an alternative to Highway 1.

In that case, why not twin Crowsnest Highway instead?
Alberta’s twinning its portion of Crowsnest Highway.

Ya that would be next. 33 from Kelowna through big white to rock creek. Then twin Crowsnest from there through Castlegar to Cranbrook. That way the Kootenays are connected to the Coquihalla highway system.

I recall, some years (or decades) back, the NDP MLA or MP for one of the Kootenay ridings was floating the idea of a new Coquihalla-style freeway to connect the Okanagan with the Kootenays. It wasn't a government proposal, just their idea for a new connection. Apologies as I haven't been able to source this, so I'm going on vague recollections...

Yes you are correct.
In fact I still have the news clippings from both Castlegar and Kelowna newspapers lol.

^Interesting - would like to see what the idea was.

I would love to see #3 Crowsnest twinned from Ft. MacLeod west into BC, through or around Cranbrook and on to Curzon, and then 95 to the US border at Kingsgate. Then if the Americans could continue twinning 95 down to Coeur d’Alene we could access I-90 much easier. :yes:

Would also be great if they could continue twinning #3 westward through BC to Hope where it joins #1 & #5.

And for Christ sake switch the #1 & #5 designations so the TCH is a freeway already. :superwhip:

It may have involved a second crossing south of the existing bridge continuing on Springfield Road to Hwy 33 past Big White. Head east past Big White till you hit Arrow Lakes. Then split south to Castlegar and Highway 3, and North to Revelstoke and Highway 1.

There was a similar discussion on the Aaroads forum back in 2016; reworking that proposal, I'd suggest the following:

• move the Trans Canada designation to the Coquihalla route between Hope and Kamloops;
• rebrand the existing TCH as Highway 1A and market it as the TCH historical route, since those communities already took a hit from losing traffic to the Coquihalla;
• Highway 5 would follow the existing 5A from Kamloops to Princeton;
• Highway 8 would be extended to Peachland (replacing 97C);
• clean up the names of 97C (Merritt-Ashcroft) and 97D (Logan Lake-new TCH), perhaps as 1B/1C(?)

This gives the TCH the freeway route instead of the slower Fraser Canyon, which would make sense given the work being done to upgrade the TCH further east. Highway 5 loses the direct connection to the Lower Mainland but still retains its role as a connection between all three major east-west routes (1/16/3). If desired, one could even consider renaming the entire route along 8/97C/33 as one highway to emphasize the connection between the Cariboo and Kootenay regions.

I contributed to that AARoads discussion back in the day, so I figured I'd repost it here with a few different ideas:

1. Targeted renumbering

Try to keep the renumbering to just moving the TCH to the Coquihalla; basically the same as mentioned about with a couple alternatives. I would argue that because BC 5 north of Kamloops is signed as the Yellowhead Hwy and part of an interprovincial corridor between the Lower Mainland and Edmonton, while BC 5A between Kamloops and Princeton is more of a local highway (provided other routes are operational), so it shouldn't revert back to #5 as they have different functions.

• TCH 1 follows the Coquihalla Hwy
• BC 1A follows the Fraser Canyon and is the TCH Historical Route
• BC 8 follows BC 97C between Merritt and Peachland
• Keep BC 5 north of Kamloops
• BC 5A between Kamloops & Merritt becomes BC 1B (runs parallel to TCH 1)
• BC 97C & BC 5A (Cache Creek-Merritt-Princeton) becomes a new number, BC 25 is available but it could be any unused number
• BC97D becomes BC 25A

2. Larger scale Interior Renumbering

IMO, BC 97 artificially connects the US with Alaska as most people who want to travel directly from the Lower 48 to Alaska would not go through the Okanagan. BC routes were renumbered to #97 to adhere to the US route grid (Okanagan used to be BC 5; Cariboo used to be BC 2) and extend it to Alaska, but those travel patterns were superseded by the Interstates. Further to that, Northern BC should have a continuous number to the Lower Mainland.

• Idea #1 with the following changes
• TCH 1 & BC 97 between Hope & Dawson Creek become BC 7
• BC 6 follows BC 97 (and TCH 1 concurrency) between Vernon & Cache Creek
• BC 5A (Kamloops-Merritt) would be BC 1A
• TCH Historical Route would follow the new BC 7 & BC 6 along the current TCH route.
• BC 97 would follow BC 97A & 97B from Vernon to Salmon Arm - BC 97B could probably be easier widened to 4 lanes to TCH 1 (which in theory will also be expanded) than BC 97A between Grindrod & Sicamous
• Create TCH 2 along the Alaska Hwy & Canamex Corridor, following AB 4/2/43 through Alberta and BC 2/97/YK-1 to Alaska

BC 7 could also have some minimal upgrades between Hope and Vancouver to allow for it to be a viable alternate east-west route.

3. Craziness

Not going to happen, but let's really dream big.

• Idea #2 with the following changes
• New bridge constructed at Boundary Road over the North Arm to BC 91, with Boundary Road either remaining a surface street or a tunnelled freeway. BC 99, BC 91, and Boundary Road between Peace Arch and TCH 1 become BC 5 (northern extension of I-5). Alternatively, BC 15 becomes BC 5 and TCH 1 is cosigned TCH 1/BC 5 between Surrey and Horseshoe Bay.
• BC 99 north of Whistler is expanded to 4 lanes. BC 99, BC 97 between Horseshoe Bay and Dawson Creek become BC 5. If the previous TCH 2 idea doesn't fly, BC 5 could continue along the Alaska Highway.
• BC 97 between the current BC 99 and Cache Creek becomes BC 5A.
• BC 12 becomes BC 8 (extension of the BC 8 corridor) - BC 8 could be extended east from the Okanagan to the Kootenays.
• YH 5 north of Kamloops could be renumbered to something else. Possibly BC 7 would follow the current TCH 1 between Hope and Kamloops, then continue north to Tête Jaune Cache.

Hey, thanks for this; in fact, I came across your specific suggestions on AARoads while researching a response to Craner's post. Sorry I missed the user name!


Good point about Highway 5, although I still think one can make the argument for retaining the connection to Highway 3. Perhaps an alternative would be to have BC 5 co-signed with the new TCH 1 between Kamloops and Merritt and then BC 5 would continue to Princeton. BC 5A would become BC 1B as you suggested.

Any thoughts on connecting the extended BC 8 with BC 33 as one number, co-signed with BC 97 through Kelowna?

Haha...no worries. I use a different username on AARoads. :cheers:

Admittedly I've never taken BC 33, so I'm not too sure. My first thought would be if a more direct connection to the Kootenays were constructed (either 2 or 4 lanes), it should be BC 8; however, since most of BC 33 is north-south, maybe it should stay as BC 33. What's the time difference between BC 33 & BC 97 from the Crowsnest to Kelowna?

Is there another "dmuzica" on AAR? The name on the post I read is spelled the same as yours.

My mistake, I do use "dmuzika" for AARoads as well. Some other boards use a different name. I didn't double-check before posting. :yuck: I used to use MuzikMachine on boards like Canroads back in the day.

Any other forums you can recommend for the infrastructurally intrigued? I primarily post here, but it is always nice to have additional sources; I'm aware of CPTDB, West Coast Ferries, and now AARoads but would welcome more.

Kicking Horse Canyon

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5c1a5084_h.jpgCut 1 Looking East at Phase 4, Kicking Horse Canyon by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

Castlegar to Kelowna via 33 is 3.5 hours
Castlegar to Kelowna via 97 is 4 hours
Castlegar to Osoyoos via 97 is 2.5 hours

The Hwy 4 Kennedy Hill project seems to be near completion.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...cb98fb17_b.jpg
Lines Painted on Kennedy Hill - BC Highway 4 by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr

How come no rumble strips.